Sarah McCusker & Luke Basso UBC Students
Sarah McCusker can be seen looting or helping someone take new clothes that she can stash away to wear after she gets out of jail. Hard to buy new clothes when she cannot finish her schooling at UBC and has no job.
Sarah McCusker and Luke Basso
I imagine that’s an “oh shit” coming from Sarah, while Luke is just plain oblivious. Luke Basso, I think you should reconsider her as your girlfriend and make her an ex.
Edit Insert June 18th:
It has been brought to my attention contrary to the many other picture posting ID’ing sites that claim Luke Basso was looting along with Sarah McCusker that Luke Basso was not actively involved in any looting. The girl he is seen with Sarah McCusker, is clearly seen to be helping someone take clothing articles but Luke Basso is seen to be just observing.
There are other issues to discuss if people who are observing the riots should have been there or not. However, in this case I retract any inference implied or otherwise that Luke Basso was a looter or rioter. For that matter, Sarah McCusker in my opinion appears to be a looter or at least helping one out. I cannot claim she was also a rioter.
**All attempts have been made to insure all information on this page is accurate. The author does not endorse any of the comments of the users of this site. If you feel any information on this site is inaccurate please contact CaptainVancouver with the subject line “CORRECTION”. LINK TO DISCLAIMER HERE.**
publicshamingeternus 
I DIDN’T KNOW THE BAY SOLD SKINNY JEANS, SO WHAT ARE THESE HIPSTER DOUCHEBAGS DOING THERE???
Sarah definitely doesn’t like having her photo taken
ah sarah, there’s no jobs in art history, so i can understand why you’d resort to theft.
I like how they totallyjust come out of nowhere, think no one’s looking – but fuck no – Capt. Vancouver is always watching bitches….
I’d still tap it.
Great Pictures – LOSERS!
Anyone let them know they’re famous?
http://www.facebook.com/luke.basso
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1664520057
I guess they are too dumb to know that they are busted. Has anyone told them?
What kills me is the picture of the tatted hoodlum in the Canada Pardon ad on the right hand side of her FB page. Maybe she should give it a click if she hasn’t already.
http://communityarts.ning.com/profile/SarahCMccusker
oh my god. she went to Bishop Ridley College which is an expensive private boarding school. So, not only is she a rich kid (with no need to loot), she learned nothing about class in high school.
She looks a suburban douchebag. I’m surprised she comes from wealth and went to prep school. Girl, brush your hair. I know they taught you that much.
nice boots, sarah, I wonder if she paid for them http://communityarts.ning.com/photo/ecoarts-salon-with-ella-cooper-109?context=latest
Hello,
I am currently investigating the vancouver riot with the Vancouver Police Department. Could those who know the female in the above photo please contact me at my VPD email:
andrew.roy@VPD.ca
Thanks,
Andrew
do we have 100% confirmation
Quote from the Commuity Arts Council of Vancouver website
“I’m enjoying having two students working with us over the summer. ( Removed the one girls name because she isnt a rioter!!)
Sarah McCusker is at UBC studying Art History and working with us about ten hours per week supporting Member Outreach.”
Mary Bennett,
Administrator, CACV
mary@cacv.ca
I wonder how Mrs. Mary Bennett feels now, I am sorry you were duped Mrs. Bennett..
Did anyone email Mary Bennett and let her know that Sarah is a thief? Lets do it!
I think Mrs. Bennett is a wonderful devoted person from her website, phoning her maybe too much. I would hope Sarah would take the higher road and quietly resign and take a few weeks off and do some soul searching..
Mark
Haha. You’d think hipsters at teh VERY least would know there are iPhone cameras everywhere.
Idiots.
how were these identified?
2 spots at UBC will be opening up shortly.
Hey Captain Vancouver, I appreciate what you’re doing and I appreciate that Vancouver is outraged, as am I, by the behaviour of these people. I’m guessing you’re not a parent though. I wonder whether the punishment fits the crime–you are ruining peoples’ lives for what amounts to a poor decision made by a young person in the heat of the moment in the face of a throng of people behaving likewise. I hope you don’t experience having your child make poor decisions, and maybe one day you’ll look at this from a different perspective. Didn’t you do some stupid stuff when you were young? I sure did.
Does this site serve any productive purpose other than providing an outlet for spite and hate?
Looting is a *very* serious crime. In a lot of countries, looters are shot on sight.
I know it really, really sucks that our actions have consequences, and we don’t get a “do over” when we make poor decisions. These people knew what they were doing was wrong, and they chose to do it anyway.
Well said. People need to step back. The only way we’re going to stop this in the future, is if people realize that they’ll be caught and there will be consequences. These two figured hey, there’s too many people, and even if people see us, we can get away with it.
I understand the parents point of view, but it’s up to the parent to teach what’s right and wrong. If my kids did this, I would send them right to the police. Something I did a as a parent was wrong. Something like this actually will be good for them to learn in the future so they never to steal again.
My suspicion is that you seem to be more worried about the shame it will bring to the parents then the destruction of a society. These people need to be called out so this will be a lesson to others.
If they didn’t steal the stuff, it’s easy. You write it on your facebook page, and tweet it out there. You write up the website and tell them how this is not you. The fact that he closed his facebook page down and she hasn’t responded lets you know what’s happening.
Right. Because when I was 20, I couldn’t wait to steal items from stores. There are logical and natural consequences to chosen behaviours. Let them experience those consequences.
There are two ways to keep order in a society: through violent force (i.e., government) or through social shaming (i.e., the transmission of ethics and norms).
If you want a better society, you should WISH for one in which we rely less on physical force — cops, guns, cages — and more on shaming. The threat of embarrassment and stigma is precisely what we need to keep people from making the “poor decisions” you speak of. It is far preferable to a society in which proper behavior must be enforced at the point of a gun.
Well said!! The role of public shaming has, sadly, been greatly diminished as our society has moved away from organized religion. There is no logical reason why this should be the case. All the great faiths share the same moral codes, and one doesn’t have to be a religious person, nor does a society need to espouse a particular religious belief, to understand that theft is, quite simply, morally wrong. Let the shaming continue, and may our country be the better for it!!
Examples need to be made. Like other sites this aides in well-deserved criminal convictions.
I don’t think that this site is an outlet for “spite and hate”, but serves the “productive purpose” to hold those responsible for their spiteful and hateful actions on Wednesday night. Sarah and Luke had consciously decided to do what they did and they deserve to pay the price. Just because their decisions were made “in the heat of the moment” doesn’t make them any less accountable, if someone were to murder your child “in the heat of the moment” would you still have the same views?
“I don’t think that this site is an outlet for “spite and hate”’
–you honestly cannot have read any of the comments on this and other sites then, because this is the only comment thread with what even comes close to a rational discussion about ANYTHING to do with the riots, on any of the sites I’ve been looking at.
It’s pretty much all hate.
This shows either a manifest disrespect for children or a manifest over-valuation of clothing. Taking unguarded clothing for one’s own use is hardly the same as murdering a child, and if you think they are at all equivalent, your judgment-faculty is b0rked.
Hate the game, not the player.
This site isn’t about hate its about outrage at the violence by the haters on Wednesday night.
whoever said ‘unguarded clothing’ is clearly out to lunch.
So if your house is unguarded it’s fair game? Where do you live? lol
No one is saying looting is worse than murdering a child, but looting is wrong, in case you didn’t know. stealing is wrong and has been since the beginning of time.
If you have children I’m guessing they were involved in the looting because clearly your moral compass is as far off as the morons looting.
This site is fantastic. These people deserve consequences and it’s not based on hate. Its based on outraging a tightly knit community that obeys a social contract.. Put more simply, the Golden Rule.
It was guarded, there were alarms and glass walls too btw. Unreal
“So if your house is unguarded it’s fair game? Where do you live? lol”
A dwelling house is far different from a place of business. If you don’t know the difference between a dwelling house and a corporate store, well, thank goodness for your lack of judgment—it’s what necessitates a legal profession.
a dwelling or a business are still someone’s property – you sound like an apologist for these thugs
“a dwelling or a business are still someone’s property – you sound like an apologist for these thugs”
So? The issue is that a dwelling house is a different sort of property, even socially. And, really, property, jus proprietas, is an incorporeal thing; it exists in contemplation of law, not in nature.
I am a Christian Pacifist. I don’t believe in fighting, nor retribution
I do not wish to be a king; I am not anxious to be rich; I decline military command… Die to the world, repudiating the madness that is in it.
—Tatian’s Address to the Greeks 11
you’re a moral relativist, an apologist for these rioters, a propagandist for your fake religion and on top of all that, you’re a dullard and a charlatan.
There were many opportunities for members of the public to vacate the downtown core. Those that decided to stick around had the criminal intent to loot and cause chaos which therefore should be punished for their actions. Public shaming should be the least of their worries.
once the police read the riot act (and i know for a fact that it was read) remaining in the area post reading is, guess what, ILLEGAL.
ordinarily, i don’t come down on the side of the state – but given the choice between the necessary oligarchy and the UFC meatheads, i’ll choose the Rotarians, thx.
Amen to that!
#1 no ones lives are getting ruined, and these people should deal with the consequences of their actions, and should face the people they’ve upset.
#2 as a parent (I’m assuming here, because you insinuated that you were one) you should know that children do not learn jack shit from soft punishments, they need to know that if they screw up there is going to be hell to pay, or else their behavior does not change, in their minds they “got away with it”.
#3 I’m pretty sure every upstanding citizen has done something stupid in their lives, but none of is ever decided to riot. There’s a limit to how stupid a decision one can make when they have been raised properly.
I find it interesting that you used the phrase “punishment fits the crime”… Let’s not forget that what these two did was not just a “poor decision”, it was literally a CRIME. When I think of kids doing stupid stuff, I picture egging their rival’s house or toilet papering their teacher’s front yard, not absconding with what appears to be at least $1,000 worth of merchandise from the smashed out window of a major department store. Do I feel for their parents? Sure, they rasied a couple of d-bags and now the whole world knows it. As for those “kids”, assuming they are over the age of 18, the law is going to treat them as “adults” and if their lives are ruined they only have themselves to blame.
Sure, I’ll bite. So we can draw a distinction in the seriousness of the action, no? So there is no excuse whatsoever for those who instigated the riots, who burned cars, who destroyed property. They should be dealt with to the full extent of the law, and sure, the penalties for this action could be more severe (longer sentences, fines etc.).
So what do you think is an appropriate punishment for those who engaged in theft under $1,000, or damaging property like that 17 yo Asian kid, who basically hit a window once with a hockey stick to impress his friends?
Death? 25 years in jail? Rape? Torture? Being run over by a car? Being beaten to death by a group of people? A lifetime of joblessness and hatred, and ostracisization? That’s what people are proposing on this and other sites, with no regard as to the “consequences” of their posting.
Obviously no one wants to these kids to die. But the consensus seems to be see them charged and humiliated. Yes of course some of the dirtier scumbags get slammed harder by the comments. (Example see the chubby kid who punched a Fireman and was screaming “PIG!” in the police officers faces and whacked them with his looted ladypurse)
But dependant upon the crime they all deserve this very treatment. Whats a little humiliation in comparison to the charges they are likely to recieve? If these dumbasses learn something from this and are honestly remorseful, then no one is likely going to remember them in a couple years. But more serious crimes like lighting a police car on fire (Example Tim Kwong, Nathan Kotylak), is going to follow that person the rest of their lives.
Was it a riot or a war-zone? And if a war-zone, the jus bellum is what governs the area, not the law of peace. And if a war-zone, who made it a warzone? Answer: the VPD, by deploying chemical weapons against an overwhelmingly peaceful crowd.
You’re blaming the VPD? Have you been clinically assessed as being mentally deficient? If not, you ought to be, because there is clearly something quite wrong with you.
The VPD and Jim Chu must be held responsible for their failure to maintain good order. That’s their duty. They used military tactics which served only to exacerbate the situation.
There’s nothing wrong with me; I’m simply not a good ol’ Union boy who never criticizes Union cops.
Also, if the only way you can refute an argument is to suggest someone is mentally deficient, you probably don’t have an argument—you have reliance on what Thomas Szasz calls the “therapeutic state” and its array of University-sponsored actors.
I could tell you there is something wrong with you for suggesting there is something wrong with me, but I don’t know that there is—you might simply be stupid, which is not wrong; after all, not everyone can be intelligent.
RegisServi i have watched 12 hours of video today – this is not the vpd’s fault – i am not usually on their side, they have even beaten me once many years ago. these days, they are the only thing protecting the decent from the moronic, lord knows the politicians won’t do it.
OK, so you have watched video, you were not an eyewitness. Very good. And it is very much the VPD’s fault:
Duties of a municipality
15 (1) Subject to this section, a municipality…must provide, in accordance with this Act and the regulations,
(a) policing and law enforcement in the municipality with a police force or police department of sufficient numbers…to maintain law and order in the municipality.” (Police Act)
Note that it says “to maintain”, not “to restore after we lose it.”
“protecting the decent from the moronic”
I think this is a fundamentally flawed world-view that fails to acknowledge the systemic problems which allow for violence and which contribute to a violent psychology in individuals. I’m not going to give much credence to people who think Hockey is a fine game, what with all that violence, then get completely baffled by people taking the Hockey mentality outside of the arena.
you’re insulting hockey players and real fans everywhere with this comment.
why are you so hell bent on encouraging us to doubt the police?
Sorry buddy. Our city as trashed and shamed globally. We’re pissed. They will pay the price.
Well said!
The punishment fits the crime. And what a crime it was. They were all read the riot act and the maximum sentence for non-compliance is life in prison.
And don’t tell me they weren’t part of the riot. They took advantage of the chaos downtown to loot. What kind of innocent person suddenly turns to looting? It shows a complete and willful disrespect of the law, the law which they are obviously aware of. Its people like this that do not control themselves and turn into animals at the first hint of disorder that disgusts me.
It might be tangential but I’m forwarding this to UBC at the moment. Its a shame they took for granted all the advantages they had.
you call THIS spite and hate? are you out of your mind? what those imbeciles did by looting and destroying our property and our cities reputation – that was spite and hate.
If it is yours, it is also theirs, so they destroyed their own.
A man (or God) may lay waste to his own things.
Isn’t “the heat of the moment ” PRECISELY when one needs their BEST DECISION MAKING skills? I mean really- isn’t THAT when it matters most??
Well, in the heat of this moment – these two decided that stealing made sense. It suited them. They went with it. It was ok to do.
Nope – not ok to do. Pretty sure the law does not state: “Do not steal! … (well unless there’s ‘heat’ amongst your moment in which case you may steal at will.) But otherwise, do not steal!” To put it in more extreme (yet similar) examples: calm-cool-relaxed-murder and heat-of-the-moment-murder are both: murder. Why? Because the guy is fucking dead – that’s why.
I don’t see anything wrong with this site. Pictures are posted, people are tagged in the pictures and people comment.
Ummmm, as a parent I would be driving my idiot kid to the police station myself. These kids are part of the ‘I’m sorry’ generation that think an apology makes up for all of their wrongdoing. These two participated in destroying an amazing city and they need to pay for it in the courts.
did you same the same thing about New Orleans looters? what I find shocking is that we’re supposed to see these actions as kids being kids and making bad decisions, but I didn’t hear anyone coming to the defence of people in New Orleans after the flood or in LA during the Rodney King riots. Are those people somehow more criminal? Why should these kids be treated any differently than the way we treat anyone else. And if you advocate compassion, perhaps it should also be aimed at everyone who commits these acts whether they be stealing to survive in a disaster zone, whether it be a result of racial tension or whether it is selfish rich kids acting up after a hockey game.
Of course it was a bad decision, but there are consequences to your actions. The more you try and prevent your children from feeling these consequences, the more likely they are to engage in these actions in the future. You may feel bad for them, but they have to suffer them. You can pat them on the head and say ‘i understand that you made a bad decision. you did something stupid. you’re not fundamentally a bad person, but suck it up and accept that people are going to be angry at you, you are going to be publicly shamed and you may suffer consequences to your work and schooling as a result of the criminal charges you will also have on file the rest of life.”
PS — since when are 21 year olds children? they’re adults who should be fully functioning, intellectually and ethically. If my 6 year old steals candy, I wouldn’t call the police. I would explain why its wrong and why they shouldn’t do it again and maybe have them go back to the store, repay it and apologize to the manager. If my 14year old steals clothes, I would again make them apologize, work off the debt and then there would be other consequences like grounding or public service depending on the circumstances, because they already understand that what they did was wrong. For that they should be punished, though not necessarily with the police. If my 21 year old were busted looting clothes during a riot, I would not be there to defend them at all. At that point they are adults, outside of my reach of control, who should know better because I taught them better than that. At that point I would let the police sort them out.
ummm, no, these brats are ruining their own lives by being idiots. They aren’t small children. They are adults, accountable for their actions. See, they just never thought they’d be caught. Looks good on them.
You know, this public humiliation might be the best thing that could happen to these over-indulged smart-asses. Maybe they’ll learn from their stupidity and become better individuals. One can hope.
Nope. What they did deserves punishment, or else they’ll keep going on in life thinking that rules do not apply to them, becoming corrupt members of society… bad apples. Looting is a serious offense. This is more than just a “bad decision” and whoever does not agree that these people need to be punished has a serious issues.
I am a parent and completely agree with this website and would want to know if my child did something like this. Although I wouldn’t want them to get kicked out of their High School or University, I would at the very least make them pay back some fraction of the property they destroyed and do some community service. They may be young but they still need to live up to their responsibilities and actions.
I sure wouldn’t want to hire anyone older than 12 who would participate in this.
Ever. Please ruin their lives, any this age that’s this dumb is worthless.
I have children, a 23yr old daughter and a 19yr old son as well as a 26 yr old future son-in-law. All three are thoroughly disgusted with those of their generation who joined in this behaviour. I can can say without a doubt that my kids would never have joined in with something like. Why? A) my children don’t drink which removes one of the factors that lowers inhibitions and interferes with frontal lobe function and therefore moral choices and B)because I know my kids, I raised them. My kids and I completely support this website.
Getting caught up in the moment is a lame excuse, we are responsible for the choices we make period. This girl is absolutely old enough to know better, she made a really bad choice and in this digital age, this is a consequence. I’ve been an a teenager, and I was an angry abused teenager, not a privileged child who attended private school with every opportunity in life handed to me. Despite bad choices I’ve made in my life, choices I’ve had to deal with the consiquences over, even I would never have engaged in this kind of activity.
Really though? Of course actions have consequences, and of course they should be held accountable. That’s why we have a justice system, and that’s why we have developed a complex society that doesn’t rely on mob-rule.
We saw the destructive power of mob-thinking the night of the riots, and now as a city we’re engaging in mob-think again by villifying these individuals for life in order to make ourselves feel better.
People need to take a step back and let the police do their work. When you’re older and have children who fuck up, maybe you’ll think back and remember this moment.
People should stop and breathe and try looking at things from a different perspective instead of just blindly folliowing this mob of vigilantes.
It’s ironic, isn’t it? The solution to one mob is another mob—with the “right mob values.”
The VPD didn’t have enough men to maintain order (or the men they had were cowards who were poorly trained, and apparently Jim Chu is going to use the Charter as his excuse for their failure to maintain order) and so they resorted to chemical warfare. Gassing huge crowds of people is an act of war. As soon as gas warfare is engage by “one side,” all pretense to civility or “law enforcement” is over. It’s a military action.
IMO we should be thankful that nobody died and move on. And we should, in a way, thank these people for showing that the VPD is wholly unprepared to respond to any sort of real, organized insurrection, at least not without turning the civilian population out to have dinner, &c into collateral damage.
I disagree, tho, with your assertion that Society isn’t simply mob rule. It is mob rule, the rule of an especially violent group of people of little stature who are largely mentally retarded, at least by classical standards. It is sort of funny—these people rely on their wages being paid by extortion of tax money, like a million little robberies each year, but that’s OK because their War Council—sorry, Parliament—says it is OK to rob a man of a fraction of his money every year. And without extortion of tax money, to support the mob that runs the judiciary that supports the fiction that a contract can be discharged for worthless paper (legal tender), their wages, their whole system of Mob Rule and Tyranny would collapse.
“When you’re older and have children who fuck up, maybe you’ll think back and remember this moment.”
This depends, I think, on whether or not one accepts that God is the Judge. Everyone got their punishment that night—if they got a few lumps, that’s their punishment. Who are these publics who want to play God and use their own judgment to ruin the lives of others? If these kids are to be ruined, God will do that himself, there is no need for people who lack forgiveness (and who thereby are clearly out of line with Jesus’ view of foregiveness) to pretend they’re fit to be the vicars of God.
ok, you nutjob
we’ll just let these douchebags trash our city and then let them get off scot free, since of course, ‘god’ is going to get ’em later on.
jeez, would george w. bush have waited for god? no, he waited for obama to catch osama.
Why do you think God is going to get them later on? Perhaps he allowed his righteous to collect clothing that they need. Or perhaps he is storing up judgment for them for some later date, e.g. the Last Day. I have no idea because I am not God. Clearly you think you are God, as you have determined that these individuals require vengeance, and it says in Deuteronomy Vengeance is mine, I will reward, that is, vengeance belongs to God, so by taking upon yourself to spew this talk of vengeance, you take upon yourself the office of God.
I did not say God was going to get them later on. I don’t know the mind of God, do you?
Also, that you call people “nutjob” is indicative of the low quality of your character and your alliance with what Thomas Szasz calls the Therapeutic State. If you really thought that through, why recommend prison at all? why not psychiatric rehabilitation for these people?
You, sir, are a slanderer. A slanderer is fit to judge? Bah.
i was calling you out for being a religious zealot, but you don’t read sarcasm too well.
Sarcasm tends to mean you say something the opposite of what you actually meant, like, for example, if you think someone is a nutjob, you might sarcastically say “OK, Derp Derp, you paragon of mental well-being and sanity.”
I just don’t see your “sarcasm.”
As for Religious Zealot, I simply believe that our law is founded on the law of God, and there are many ancient judgments of the sages of law confirming this—if we went back to the ancient law, as opposed to continual proletariat electoral mafia rule, I think we’d have fewer riots, better peace, order and government—but we’d have way fewer to no corporations, those vain idols, the work of man’s hands, worshiped by the greedy and feckless. That’s the other issue not even worth addressing here—of the businesses damaged, how many of them had even their statutory title/lease vested in a corporation? Can’t injure a thing with no soul, can you?
“in a way, thank these people…” Thank these people..???
. what an idiot RegisServi
hey regis,
you fucking nuance lacking hack,
i will repeat..
we’ll just let these douchebags trash our city and then let them get off scot free, since of course, ‘god’ is going to get ‘em later on.
jeez, would george w. bush have waited for god? no, he waited for obama to catch osama.
that was sarcasm. now get off your high horse, preacher man.
These “children” are not children, they are criminals. Why on earth would we grant them anonymity after the destruction they collectively caused, the theft they committed, and the worldwide shame they imposed on our city??
This is beyond “bad decisions”. These are CRIMES and these individuals should be treated like CRIMINALS.
The rest of us Vancouverites have every right to feel anger towards these criminals. Look what they did to us! I am not condoning that we sink to their level and react with violence, but shrugging this off as “children fucking up” is completely unacceptable.
I fail to see how a child cannot be a criminal. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Part of the problem is calling them criminals prior to conviction. It shows that you do not accept the principles upon which Canada is founded, one of which is the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law says that people are presumed innocent until proven guilty by a court of competent jurisdiction.
“These are CRIMES and these individuals should be treated like CRIMINALS. ”
That’s called prejudice. No man is to be condemned without summons and without hearing. This is not a hearing; this is simply a bunch of whiny little retards venting about their perceived embarrassment. You know what’s really embarrassing? The the VPD couldn’t keep it to together. If you want to blame someone in a way that will create real systemic change and result in better order in future, don’t think you can shame/punish these sorts of people away. It’s all about pleasing your undeveloped primate brain—if you really cared about maintaining order in future, you’d take a hard look at how the VPD handled things and how in future they could do a better job.
Mob mentality? Heat of the moment? Give me a break.
In the heat of the moment, there were a small number of good Vancouverites who stood bravely and selflessly in the way of hooligans and looters in an attempt to do the right thing and encourage others to follow. There were tens of thousands more who either stood by watching (not stealing or smashing) or, better, left the area when things started getting ugly.
At the same time, in the heat of the moment, a small group of ethic-less young adults participated in either smashing, burning or stealing – as Luke and Sarah are photographed doing (reaching through broken glass to accept stolen merchandise is the same thing as stealing, although I expect that defense to be used).
You can hardly defend people as suffering from ‘mob mentality’ when 98,000 of the 100,000 people downtown eventually left the area and another 1,000 stood by only observing. The remaining 1,000 people made a terrible decision because they lacked a basic foundation of ethics.
It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a moment to ruin it. They have now discovered that the hard way.
The good new is is that neither of them will actually be prosecuted for their crimes, and the shame will make them stronger people in the long run.
Even young people have to be held accountable for their actions. The reason they feel that it is okay to act like this is because they have been sheltered from the consequences of their behaviour all their lives. From a very young age, my parents let me and my siblings fall on our own swords when we screwed up, and they ensured that we owned up to our actions and that appropriate restitution was paid. We would NEVER, EVER behave like this, even in the heat of the moment with a throng of people behaving likewise. We have far too much respect for ourselves, for others and for our community.
The Young Offenders Act has been shielding youth from having to live with the real consequences of their actions for years. Honestly, I think public shaming can be the biggest deterrent of all, and not just for the kids but for the parents as well. Yes, it would suck for good parents whose kids fucked up, but I believe that it would give lazy parents the kick in the ass they need to actually step up and do their job.
For most of these idiots a public apology and community service will be the best way to pay their debt to society.
I get the impression that quite a few of the apologists on here don’t understand that morality doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It is something which needs to be reinforced by the community at large. It’s also something which exists within a person regardless of circumstances. A person who won’t commit a crime publicly but who will do something bad if they think they can get away with it is not a moral person. Amoral behaviour has been tolerated for too long. I don’t espouse organized religion, but our secular society has not done a good job of teaching our children about right and wrong. We’ve hamstrung parents and teachers by no longer allowing them to mete out any kind of physical punishment, and as a result children have had a free reign for the past few decades. It’s time to stop this ridiculous notion that children are too precious to be punished, and to get back to old-fashioned notions of doing the right thing, facing the consequences of your actions, not allowing back-talk, and yes, spanking. Not beating, spanking. And I think that the strap had a good role to play if used sparingly, too.
Captain Vancouver approves of this comment. My thoughts exactly as to why I started this blog.
Why are some people treating criminals like they’re the victims??? It’s sickening…
They’re not criminals until convicted in a court of competent jurisdiction. If you ever find one of those, let me know.
this is the court of LuLz
I don’t think you know much about Lulz. If you really care about the Lulz, you have no time for vengeance—leave that to God. Eat, drink and be merry. Have Lulz, leave the judgement to God.
Fine then. Why are you treating people who are clearly committing illegal acts, like victims?
You’re blame of the VPD clearly shows your bias. They acted to not escalate the violence by minimizing the use of physical force. Were they shooting tear gas into the crowds which tthen made people start lighting cars on fire? Please explain how their actions created or exacerbated this situation.
“Why are you treating people who are clearly committing illegal acts”
I am sorry, that is a determination for a court of competent jurisdiction. I am not a court of competent jurisdiction, but perhaps you are. May I see your commission? And it must be a funny one, as you have judged these people without summons and without hearing—as far as I know, nobody is to be judged without a summons and hearing, for even God gave Adam (gen. iii) a summons and hearing before he condemned him for violating the primary commandment.
“They acted to not escalate the violence by minimizing the use of physical force.”
No, they did not. In light of Jim Chu’s after the fact statement about suppressing the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, I am left with the impression that the VPD held back, allowed the violence to escalate, exactly to ground such a statement for the mob of voters. Of course, that is speculation, but it would render somewhat intelligible why they allowed things to get so bad by defaulting to maintain good order.
I am sorry, using Gas Warfare is not “minimal.” As soon as gas warfare begins, there should be continual sirens blaring and messages broadcast to vacate the area, simply so that nice people don’t get gassed. Gas warfare is banned in war between nations under international covenant–I find it very inequitable to think that what is inappropriate in such great conflagrations is somehow appropriate domestically.
“Were they shooting tear gas into the crowds which then made people start lighting cars on fire?”
As I understand the sequence of events, one or two cars were trashed before the gas warfare began. I simply don’t believe gas warfare is legitimate—I don’t believe any warfare is legitimate, actually, being a Christian Pacifist, but even under accepted international norms for the conduct of warfare, gas warfare is considered “not cricket.”
And once you begin making war on an entire crowd, is it not a potential outcome that the crowd will behave as though it is having war made on it? Don’t tell me that such is “wrong”, just admit that once gas warfare starts, it antagonizes people and they have a legitimate belief that war is being made on them—how they respond to that is an individual thing, but to suggest that it is wholly without foundation for them to behave as though war was being made on them is simply incorrect.
I would rather the VPD use individualized tactics and take six hours to mop things up, rather than jumping straight to chemical warfare and then bragging about how they only defaulted to maintain law and order for three hours, which seems to be the case. Such simply wouldn’t have antagonized as many people.
RegisServi,
You are conflating the difference between sorting out who is responsible for criminal acts and identifying acts as criminal. The police are not the ones who mete out punishment for crimes, they are the ones who identify, investigate and protect against crimes. If you think that the judicial system needs to step in and decide whether a crime is being committed before police can act or that citizens can’t identify when a crime is being committed because they are not ‘commissioned’ you are using as much of a logical fallacy as those that use ad homonem attacks against you are using.
We know that criminal acts were happening before the Police promulgated your so-called ‘war’ against the rioters. Tear gas does not constitute a declaration of war that fall under the auspices of wartime justice.
The Police did try to be peaceful – it didn’t work. That doesn’t mean they are to blame.
“Tear gas does not constitute a declaration of war that fall under the auspices of wartime justice.”
I think that is very much debatable.
As it is a prohibited tactic in international warfare, I fail to see how it should not in equity (regardless of domestic statute) be considered not only an act of war, but a prohibited kind of act of war.
“If you think that the judicial system needs to step in and decide whether a crime is being committed before police can act or that citizens can’t identify when a crime is being committed because they are not ‘commissioned’ you are using as much of a logical fallacy as those that use ad homonem attacks against you are using.”
I don’t think it is a logical fallacy; and people may allege a crime has been committed, but let’s not kid ourselves: a majority of the posters here are not simply making allegations: they want extrajudicial punishment for the people depicted in these photographs: they want to slander them to their employers (it’s still slander even if it’s true; the truth merely creates a defense to the slander) and to shame them, rather than to forgive them.
Police and citizens can certainly in good faith act as though a crime had been committed, either by presuming they have a warrant from the exigency of the circumstances to take someone into custody or by informing someone of the situation. But whether or not they were actually justified always rests with the courts—I don’t think it’s a logical fallacy at all to suggest this forum is being used by many who view themselves as Judge, Jury and Executioner, and that I find is far more dangerous to a Free Society than any amount of broken glass, which can be replaced. One acceptance of the Rule of law abates, it is very difficult to restore it, and part of the Rule of Law is acceptance of the Judiciary’s role in assigning guilt and punishment.
i have this to say about regis:
‘where you will find a stream of words, you will find a stream of lies’
your version of rule of law has god as the ultimate arbiter – the problem is that we killed god about 100 years ago – why must you cling to this rock in the middle of the rapids? your clothes are all gone.
This is different. I agree we need to hold our kids accountable, and that there are some parents who could do a better job (generally, I think parents often do the best that they can under a complex set of circumstances, but I’m sure I’ll get shot down for saying that).
This is different–there has never before been this potential to RUIN people with a few keystrokes and a few pictures.
And if you think that people who make decisions like this, in a mob, after having a bunch of beers, are making clear-headed decisions and weighing the consequences, we should go for some beers. I ask you again: Haven’t you ever done anything stupid when you were young, drunk, and with a bunch of friends? What if your mistakes were posted on this site? How would that have affected you?
Though I suspect that most of the people posting here are just as young as the rioters themselves…
The reason these riots occur is because it seems that no one is *ever* held accountable for their actions. It wasn’t their fault, their mommy didn’t hug them enough, they got caught up in the moment, etc. etc. What you’re seeing is the formerly silent majority of good, decent, law-abiding citizens realizing that, through social media, they have a powerful tool to augment a legal system that seems to favor the criminals.
I take your point that there is a powerful minority (majority) of law-abiding citizens disaffected with the justice system. I’m one of them. But I don’t think what we’re seeing is people re-claiming this power through social media. I think this is simple, old-fashioned vigilanteism, moved online. What we’re seeing is the power of social media to enhance our validation of our own selves as “law-abiding citizens” as opposed to “those other guys”, the rioters and the criminals. It makes us all feel good to be doing something. We’re also seeing how powerful social media is at creating the same conditions for group-think that occur in large physical gatherings. It’s just as destructive, IMO, and I’m not sure the purpose it serves.
If people have tips and info they should forward them to the police, and we should all use this occasion to look introspectively at our own selves and the social conditions in our own city. This was not an isolated group of people–it was thousands. We need to engage with the cold hard fact that these people were, like it or not, Vancouverites and also Canucks fans.
“The reason these riots occur is because it seems that no one is *ever* held accountable for their actions. It wasn’t their fault, their mommy didn’t hug them enough, they got caught up in the moment, etc. etc. ”
I’m not saying this at all, to be clear, I’m saying that we might all step back and question whether the consequences we’re imposing on these people by engaging in vigilante justice are consistent with the situation. Again, you might look differently on this as a parent.
“We’re also seeing how powerful social media is at creating the same conditions for group-think that occur in large physical gatherings.”
I sympathize with this broader concern. I’m a libertarian-bordering-on-anarchist, for heaven’s sake. I detest mobs and witch-hunts.
But that’s because mobs and witch-hunts almost always target people for certain thoughts and expression. That’s not what is happening here. The people in these photos are HURTING OTHERS with their ACTIONS. We are simply saying, “No. What you did is bad, we have noticed that you did it, and we do not approve of it.”
This is not about vilifying an individual for her belief system or utterances. It’s about shoring up ethical norms. We are showing how society will treat you if you hurt other humans in that society.
I should be more clear and say that we are showing how society will REGARD you if you hurt other humans.
“Haven’t you ever done anything stupid when you were young, drunk, and with a bunch of friends? ”
Yes, I have done stupid things. I have even done stupid things when I was older, sober and alone.
What I haven’t done, however, is purposely infringe the person or property of another human being.
If there are human beings among us who have that propensity, we other human beings around them have a right — even a responsibility — to call them out for it.
(Also, this is a genuinely polite request: Might you please use the “Reply” button so that your responses are shown in the proper context? Thanks!)
apologies re reply button, my reply is above.
“This is different–there has never before been this potential to RUIN people with a few keystrokes and a few pictures.”
Their lives weren’t ruined by the keystrokes, they were ruined, if indeed they were ruined, by engaging in this behavior, stealing, looting, and rioting.
“And if you think that people who make decisions like this, in a mob, after having a bunch of beers, are making clear-headed decisions and weighing the consequences, we should go for some beers. I ask you again: Haven’t you ever done anything stupid when you were young, drunk, and with a bunch of friends? What if your mistakes were posted on this site? How would that have affected you?”
Well, a lot of my friends were caught in that mob and none burnt cars, smashed windows or looted stores. This is not about making “clear-headed decisions”, it’s about upholding some basic social norms. I will not kill someone, or burn a car, or break windows, or loot a store no matter how drunk I’ll get. How do I know that? Because I’ve been very drunk (and sometimes belligerent) many times, but never done this. Interestingly enough, no one I know has done this either.
So yes, actions have consequences, and this is one of them.
I have read your comments and can appreciate your viewpoints. the 2 kids as you refer to them made a choice, nobody forced them to climb in the window and take the item from the store. I am sure both of their parents taught them right from wrong. They made the choice to do wrong. The act that was in the photo is on the internet for all to see. We are ultimatly judged by the community as the whole and that is the correct balance in life.
I am sure you would support my belief that at some point in kids lives they eed to understand conseqences. Today, these 2 kids have a better understanding of their actions. Its not about hate or vilification, just accepting what they did. They can move on from today with their head a little higher. They can take responsibilty, make amends and do the right thing. Its all aout choices.
I’ve done many stupid things when I was younger although I was never stupid enough to knowingly participate in a riot. Here’s another stupid thing that has consequences – drunk driving. We all condone drunk driving just as we condone looting. Knowingly participating in this is like intentionally planning to drink before driving. Stupid, stupid, stupid. We are better off without people like this.
Yes, I did do something stupid when I was a kid. I went through the court system and decided there’s no future in that path. I’ve kept it clean ever since. Don’t know what would have happened if I’d never seen the inside of a courtroom as a result of my actions. I grew a conscience, used my head and called it a bad experience that I wouldn’t be repeating. These kids are not ruined, just in need of learning a hard lesson with some stern consequences. It’s up to them how they proceed from here. Spare me the drama please.
Some of the problem lies with the whole judicial system. People under a certain age are protected for their “behavior” and instead of parents dealing with the problem ~ they appear to be proud that “junior” got off again. One thing after another. Yes, this is more out there for everyone to see, but I guess if the shoe fits, wear it!!! They made the decision, and if the excuse is “they’re young” & / or drunk ~ don’t drink, cause obviously you make shitty decisions when you drink too much, and young! ~ in University & young!!! no just protected from the consequences of your decisions for far too long! Is there future employment going to change this shitty behaviour? Maybe they have to grow up & realize there are consequences for their behaviour! How many of these people woke up on Thursday, became aware of what a-holes they were Wednesday night and have decided to make some changes in their life. An old proverb says: “Life is like a field of freshly fallen snow, be careful how you treat it, for every step will show”!
I doubt this site will receive the kind of world media attention the actions of your child (amongst others of course) did on Wednesday night. The actions of people like your child have caught the entire planet’s attention because it is disgusting to see the many over-power the few. Here is an opportunity to parent properly possibly for the first time in your life and you choose to once again attempt to shelter your child from consequences. I am a parent and I agree with an above post stating that children that are faced with appropriate consequences from young would not participate in this type of crime and I certainly know that my children will never be a part of this activity. They were also disgusted to see what some people in this world are capable of doing if they think they will get away with it. Hang your head as a parent in shame and if you are looking for true blame for your child’s actions you can look in the mirror.
Whoa dude, you need to take a chill pill, it’s not my kid who was out there. He’s 5. I hope my child is sensible enough to not make a decision this bad when there are thousands of people recording his image, but I’m not naive to think he won’t make mistakes. It must be a pretty brutal position to be in as a parent, I would imagine, especially with blowhards like you out there…
I am certainly not a blowhard, only one of the many here that is defending the point to of this site. Like I said, to shelter your child is to see them grow up with rose coloured glasses and not understand consequences for actions. Have I made mistakes as a young man, absolutely but I faced my consequences knowing that I did crime and needed do accept the time. If you were to talk to my children you would know that I am an understanding a loving parent and what keeps my children from making the wrong decisions is the fear of dis-appointing me, not corporal punishment. To lead we must be leaders and to be a parent is to lead by example. If you are not the parent of one of these children then I clearly wasn’t addressing you.
fair enough, and I’ll withdraw my blowhard reference.
The problem with this argument is that this is a whole new world where technology makes the consequences unpredictable and unknowable, and archived publically for life. This is unprecedented and I don’t think its outcomes can be predicted.
You’re honestly telling me that you’d be happy to see your kid shamed like this? Have you read the comments on Facebook? Have you seen how people have been harassing family members, employers, colleagues? How is this useful again?
Public shaming was how order was kept, once upon a time. Until right now I had thought that its day had passed. I’m very pleased to see that it’s back. Sometimes it’s the only way to keep people with underdeveloped moral compasses from doing things which are wrong. If fear of the law, or of a “higher power” won’t keep them in line perhaps public shaming will.
I just hope that the citizenry won’t be so apathetic the next time there is a large public gathering. We all need to be willing to stand up for what’s right. Kudos to those who did their best to stop the mobs, even at risk of their own safety.
A note to “People Need to Step Back and Breathe”:
I’m 47 years old and the parent of an 8 and 3 year old. If anyone ever takes a picture of them robbing a store, I hope someone shames them like this.
Being drunk is no defence.
“Everyone was doing it” is no defence. This is basic preschool stuff: if Johnny jumped off a bridge, would you jump off a bridge, etc. C’mon.
An entire generation has grown up with a dangerous sense of entitlement, matched only by their inability to accept any personal responsibility for their actions. Why? Because their parents will defend them no matter how stupid, dangerous, and criminal their actions.
It’s called unconditional love.
If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. (NLT, Matthew 6:14-15)
If you think you are sinless, you are delusional.
sure, I take your point. I’m raising my kids to appreciate the consequences of their actions, and I agree this is basic moral stuff. I hope my kids also develop an appreciation for context, and the insight not only to realize what the consequences of their actions are, where the line is, but also to understand why they made mistakes and the actions and decisions that contributed to them.
In that regard, I think we could all be thinking more complexly, instead of just rehashing the rage, the talking points (not vancouverites, not canucks fans), and engaging in self-congratulatory vigilanteism.
why do you call this vigilantism?
according to wikipedia, “A vigilante is someone who illegally punishes someone for perceived offenses, or participates in a group which metes out extrajudicial punishment to such a person.”
I don’t see any illegal punishment here. These pictures were taken in a public place, and all information about these people was obtained from public sources. No one is calling for them to be hurt in any way. The moderator is not allowing posts of any information about their families.
Moreover, there is no “perceived” offences here. Looting, rioting, torching, assaulting, are all very serious and real offences. I understand that they have not been proven in a court of law, but then again these people’s life and liberty are not at stake because of what Captain Vancouver may say about them, and, to use an old cliche, pictures generally speak louder than words.
In our society, it has long become acceptable to “perp walk” the accused, and names and facts about accused persons, especially in sex offences, to be widely reported. How is this really different?
It’s different because this is a digital age, where information is publically accessible in a way that it wasn’t previously, and where the production of those images, speech, meting out of justice is in the hands of individuals, rather than an institutionalized justice system that has developed protocols and procedures.
It’s also different because this information is now accessible to future employers, future university recruiters, future gatekeepers of opportunity to lead a fulfilling and productive life. So what is different is that this vigilanteism is going to follow these kids FOR LIFE. This is UNPRECEDENTED, and it’s not inconsequential. We’re all preaching that these kids should consider their actions but there isnt much thought to the consequences of our online mobbing.
C’mon, you can’t tell me that an art history student and a computer science student at UBC are the scum of the earth. I’ll speculate–and I can only speculate–that they were reasonably accomplished people before this night,. That other kid was a 17 year-old cadet in Richmond. He’s a kid!
Maybe we can draw a distinction between the douchebags who instigated and the otherwise moral kids who probably got caught up in the moment and are now going to have their lives ruined by sites like this.
I can’t agree with you. Availability of information places a higher onus on the individual to act in such a way that will not embarrass him or her in the future. Fair or not, that’s how society and technology works at this point. However, it does not mean that there is a higher onus on me, as an innocent bystander, or a blogger, to be more circumspect when I post FATS. I do not agree that my social (or legal) obligations changed in any way because of the information age or advances in technology. As long as the defence of truth is available to me, I am in the right.
They may not have been scum of the earth. And they may not be scum of the earth in the future. But it has nothing to do with their age, their parents, or where they go to school. Why would it? At this point in time, they are scum because they looted and rioted. Period. How history will judge them in the future is an open question.
And remember, there are options. If I was featured on this site, I’d be proactive. I’d post a heartfelt confession (I am sure Captain Vancouver would publish it), I would create my own site where I would do the same and promise never to do it again. I would volunteer to pay restitution and to a further punishment. This way, when someone would search for names of these people, they would see, the crime, the punishment, and true remorse.
Yeah, sure, I agree and think that’s a great idea and would love to see these people do that. I sure have a lot of confidence that such a confession would be well received by this mob. 😉
Have you actually read the hate that is being spewed about these people? Nobody is actually acknowledging the amount of vitriol that is appearing online. The hateful spite that people are posting is almost as bad as the original riot. (this is a figure of speech, not a literal statement).
some people will always spew hate, and others will riot. As long as the hate is not inciting violence to these people, then it’s merely free speech.
I supposed your entitled to a point of view. But the number of comments you’re leaving seems to suggest your child was invovled or did something heinous in the past.
The tragedy isn’t that these people are being singled out. The tragedy is that there aren’t clear photographs of all the people invovled. I’m sure tons of security footage will be released soon.
These people should be known for what they’ve done. Anything less would be unfair to the majority of young people who don’t do such things.
Nope, I have a 5 y/o and a 2 y/o and a bit of time on my hands, and maybe a bit of pent-up desire to see people actually articulate their reasons for this witch hunt.
They are unreasonable, bloodthirsty mobsters—they just feel so powerful because they’re allied with the “right mafia” not the “wrong mafia.”
I find the behavior of these recreants far more objectionable than that of the so-called rioters. I also wonder how many of them drink alcohol—I don’t think alcohol causes poor judgment only in large groups.
Society is changing all the time, who would have guessed that so many of the inciters, rioters and looters could be so young. It is almost ironic that the young people caught digitally on this site are also the ones who use the internet, social media and smart phones more so than any other age group. I am encouraged by this site, to remind those who hide in anonymity or mob bullying to remind them that the power wielded in the hands of others and ironically their own (smart phones) are also their hangmen.
Sad and misguided. I can’t make meaning for myself out of this.
They knew what they were doing: based on the light level in the photo, this was hours after the chaos began. This was no momentary lapse in judgment. To be there so long after it turned to insanity is to be an active, willing, premeditated participant. Either they had been participating in the riot for hours or had entered the riot area knowing full well what the scene was.
It’s so easy to pass off the looters as uneducated ‘surrey’ people, but that’s clearly not the case. It’s easy to pass them off as ‘not real vancouverites’ but its not the case. I’d like to say that these two are true scum and that some boogie man is to blame for their idiocy, but it’s not the case either. That the rioters defy the stereotypes is why its so crushing for the rest of us.
One of Ms. McCusker’s favourite books is Heart of Darkness, which has as key themes the descent of humans to inhumanity and insanity. She has likely discussed these themes, the creation of civil society, the importance of positive social ties etc etc in her classes.
It’s the fact that these two are educated, privileged, smart kids that is so traumatizing to us who don’t see the point in this behaviour. We search for excuses: booze, drugs, “Surreyness” etc. But the disturbing fact is that I can’t explain it. I can’t understand it. That’s why making meaning of it is so impossible. We just have to latch on to the positive response of those who came to clean, the apologies as they come of those who realized they lost their way and the positively-driven actions of those whose intent is to create in our country a better society.
Hopefully Ms. McCusker and Mr. Basso will add their contrition to this dialogue and help us find the humanity in their actions past and present. Hopefully the experience of being called out in so public a forum will inspire them to give back to the society 10 times over the damage they have helped cause.
It’s not the mistakes that we make, it’s how we respond and learn from them that is important.
very good post, and I fully agree with you.
Thanks, I think this is a great post. It’s really difficult and probably impossible to understand, but I don’t think that should preclude our trying. What I am arguing is that there is a general lack of humanity and critical thinking in the mob-response to this violent event.
I’ve also been surprised that nobody has mentioned any connection to the DTES. There is an entire discourse about “why these people didn’t go home”. Lots of the guys leading this were the same high, vagrant people we ignore on our streets everyday. There is a lengthy history of animosity between VPD and DTES residents. We have one of the largest homeless, drug-addicted populations in North America.
But those guys don’t have Facebook profiles I guess.
what does the riot have to do with DTES?
you can go here to read: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/737263-vancouver-riot-psychology-not-hooligans-is-responsibile-for-the-chaos
it was my observation that a great number of the instigators appeared to be the same vagrant, high young men that live on our streets. You can’t for a second argue that the relationship between VPD and downtown residents was not a factor here (though one of many). People were acting out their hatred for the cops as much as anything.
maybe if they didn’t layabout the streets and smoke crack all day they wouldn’t have any reason to hate the vpd.
there are programs in place for treatment – there are rec centers for showers and salvation army for clothes and the library for free internet to find work – would be difficult but not impossible to get back on one’s feet and opt in to the system. tearing it all down and starting civilization over with you and your skid buddies at the top of the heap is prrrrrrobably not going to go too well.
now that we’ve all laughed at the morons.. who are the instigators??
For people calling for us to give them a chance, why? SO they can do this again?
I’m not calling for a life sentence here, but something more than a slap on the wrist would be nice. Actual jail time and community service sounds fair.
And having their names listed in Google forever is awesome as well!
I am a Vancouver Canucks fan that lives in the Okanagan Valley. I am 24, female, and I spent the evening watching the game in one of the local bars, with many, many other fans. I did not drink. I didn’t break things, or hurt anyone. Nor would I have if I were IN Vancouver. Instead, I went to the bus stop after the game was over, and joined two other REAL fans in waving a Canucks blanket around and trying to get cars to honk at us. It made us feel better, and it was a far better way to show support for the team we loved than all the very poor decisions made by the few in Vancouver that did no go home… And unfortunately for all of us true fans, all the world really is going to see is the destruction and chaos created by those who chose to riot, instead of being the gracious, amazing people we all know we can be. We were embarrassed in front of the entire world because of people who either planned to riot from the beginning, or joined the rioters for reasons unfathomable.
I know that my friends in Vancouver took no part in this riot, and I don’t see why anyone else should have taken part either.
Just because other people are doing it (or in this case, did it), doesn’t make it right. I had hoped to celebrate a Canucks win that night, but they lost, and I went home. From the time I left the bar, to the time I got on the bus, the reports were already coming in that Vancouver was losing in disgrace. I have to tell you, that news added insult to injury, and only made me feel worse about the loss than I already had.
The Canucks made world-wide news, for all the wrong reasons…. They were on all the news channels as JOKES! Entertainment Tonight even covered the story…. It was extremely depressing.
The morning after is when all the real Canucks fans rose and shone. The people that are on this site, and others like it, deserve to be there for all eternity, as a tribute to their miraculously bad judgement, and a testament that we, the real Canucks fans, do not agree with them.
I am a true fan, and I still believe.
I think most people realize this was the work of some bad apples, and is not representative of your city as a whole. The response from Vancouver’s people the next day was very heartwarming and refreshing.
I’m not even Canadian — I live in Detroit — but I’ve been impressed by the city’s response in the aftermath of this. I’ve been trying to settle on an MLS team to support. I think I just might go with the Whitecaps.
To “People need:”
You know what? I agree with you that there is a lot of venting going on here. What you’ve got is a generation of kids who are growing up with unprecedented technology but don’t fully understand its power. They made a mistake, in some cases premeditated, in some cases spur-of-the-moment, and now it’s out there on the Internet forever.
But their lives aren’t ruined. The best thing we can do as a community is give them an opportunity to make right what they made wrong. Facing up to our collective anger is part of that. A slap on the wrist will only serve to anger us in the sense that they never paid up. But stiff punishments that *fit the crime* will give us the opportunity in the future to say, “This person in front of me was one of the rioters, but I can see he learned his lesson because the courts forced him to pay back $50,000 in restitution which he had to earn without his parents’ help. I was angry back then, I vented on shame blogs, but I’m over it now. The city has healed. And so has he. Let’s move on.”
How about instead we say “I’m pissed, and I can’t understand how people could engage in this kind of despicable activity, but I’m not going to stoop to their level by engaging in hateful, ruinous and vitriolic shaming. Instead, I’m going to use my mental faculties to try and understand why this occurred, and what I can contribute to our community.”
And maybe it’s time to also say “you know what, more pictures and video is getting a pretty cliche contribution by now. We’re pretty saturated with pictures and video. the police have what they need. Maybe there are some better, more creative ways we can contribute to our moving on”
I think in order for people to feel that a sense of justice is being reached, it’s somewhat necessary to keep reporting who the people are. We’ve seen the images; they can’t be unseen. Knowing that the people have been identified and that they are facing consequences matters.
As for response, every person has their own individual grief process. We all felt violated on Wednesday night, and now we have to work through our anger. Some of us have arrived, and some haven’t. But one-by-one, as people reach a state of acceptance, the vitriol will die down. Suppressing the anger doesn’t help accomplish the healing that we ultimately need.
Sorry to say, but we’ve had 40 years of this type of approach. It is time to move to the centre in regards to crime and punishment. If it is someone’s first offense, then they should have to pay for the stolen/destroyed property and possibly get a suspended sentence. For repeat offenders, the book should be thrown at them. Shame them, charge them, imprison them.
I appreciate what you’re saying, People Need, as I’m very glad my more stupid moments are not posted on blogs (that I’m aware of, at any rate). However, I’ve experienced shaming, and the pain of the humiliation was horrifying, certainly, but also redemptive.
I say shaming can be redemptive because if people who are guilty actually admit it, admit their wrong and ask forgiveness, I bet there will be a huge outpouring of grace. People judge, yes, but they also forgive. That’s the beauty of being truly human. And whoever has done wrong, was sorry and then had extended grace to him/her, learns a shit-ton and learns how to respect others better. That’s redemption.
I’m furious with these douchebags, and a lot of them are so self-righteous and entitled they’ll never feel the shame they SHOULD feel which would lead to being truly sorry which they SHOULD be.
But a lot of them are likely more good than bad and hopefully all this public outrage will help them realize how truly shitty their actions were, and the shame of it will propel them in a direction of realizing how much their behaviour has hurt others (our city, other people, our city’s reputation which affects our economy, I could go on and on) and being truly sorrowful for their actions.
What I agree with you is this: the danger with us being too vehement in our disgust with these people (it’s appropriate to be disgusted by their behaviour, but that’s different) could cause a lot of them to become more defiant rather than humble, which would really suck for them and for society, because they would no longer be reachable.
I would want them all to know that if they were truly sorrowful for their behaviour, they’d be forgiven. They’d still be held accountable and have to go to jail or pay a fine or whatever is appropriate, but in a perfect world we’d mete out the punishment in the way a good parent punishes a child: with love and respect.
I’m thrilled with the outrage and disgust with the riot. It’s a hopeful sign that we’re not sliding towards unruly anarchy. It shows we actually care about one another and will not allow people to rob, hurt or destroy others’ stuff. Those that earn back our good graces (simply by admitting their douchebaggery and accepting what’s their due) will be welcomed (I hope). Those that don’t will be shunned. (I realize it’s not that simple, some people need a lot of work etc etc) but the general principle I think is reasonable.
Here’s good piece on context:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/737263-vancouver-riot-psychology-not-hooligans-is-responsibile-for-the-chaos
That article is pretty poor. When young people are loading on to Skytrain with hammers, crowbars, tire irons and gas cans, they have a plan and are just looking for the right time to act upon their desires. The riot would have occurred whether the Canucks won or lost. The mentality was fully in play when those gas cans were brought on to Skytrain. The most unfortunate part is that the lure of mob mentality infiltrated into the kids who may have had more innocent intentions, but got caught up in the excitement. Those kids need to take a look in the mirror, too.
Looks like you just wasted your time in school kids. Employers love to see a criminal record on resumes. Good luck getting a job. Do you want fries with that????
In a war zone, and even by the natural law, it is no crime to take items that are left unattended. The VPD and their Supporters failed to maintain order, and the VPD deployed chemical weapons thereby converting the whole are into a little warzone. That any of you want to beat up on a few kids who drew no blood is indicative of an immoral disposition.
Our Lord God in the Flesh tells us to forgive our brothers not seven times, but seventy times seven times. How dare any of you fail to heed his commandment. Epic fail, everyone who fails to forgive.
what is “natural law”?
Does putting stuff behind bars and windows mean that it’s left unattended?
Natural Law is more or less Divine Law, or Lex Divina.
These kids did not rob anyone; they did not violate the moral law, non furtum facies/thou shalt not steal. That would be holding someone up—your money or your life—like the police do everyday to speeders, etc. Oh, sorry, they don’t call it money, they call it license and registration. But on topic, here’s a quotation from William Blackstone:
“(accurately and ftrictly fpeaking) there is no foundation in nature or in natural law, why a fet of words upon parchment fhould convey the dominion of land; why the fon fhould have a right to exclude his fellow creatures from a determinate fpot of ground, becaufe his father had done fo before him; or why the occupier of a particular field or of a jewel, when lying on his death-bed and no longer able to maintain poffeffion, fhould be entitled to tell the reft of the world which of them fhould enjoy it after him. Thefe enquiries, it muft be owned, would be ufelefs and even troublefome in common life. It is well if the mafs of mankind will obey the laws when made, without fcrutinizing too nicely into the reafons of making them.” (2 Bl Comm. 2)
It is well if the mass of mankind will obey the laws when made, and how. If they looked closely, they would find that the so-called “theft” in these photos, and even “rioting” itself, is merely contrary to the positive law of Society, a Society that broke down and gassed its own people—chemical weaponry that is prohibited by international law. I know, I know, not domestically binding in law, but in equity, if a Country has ratified a convention preventing is armed forces from using chemical weapons, I think it behooves them to refrain domestically as well.
“Does putting stuff behind bars and windows mean that it’s left unattended?”
As far as the pictures indicate, the window had been broken already, and who knows who did that. I don’t. They didn’t either. I am not their judge; I will not use my mouth to convict them. Are you their judge?
‘natural law’ is what happens when RegisServi goes off his meds. (or when his tinfoil hat falls off)
Yep, the whole of the judiciary was mentally ill up until proletariat mob rule started fixing things by innovation.
This is a serious issue—I am glad that you are in it for low-quality lulz. You know any retarded public school graduate can go “FUH FUH FUH MENTALLY ILL” whenever someone upsets him, right? Isn’t it now part of the training? Did you go to public school before or after they stopped reading the Scripture every morning?
In a riot zone, after the Riot Act has been read, it’s legal for police to shoot and kill anyone caught looting.
Our Lord God in the Flesh cries “an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth”. How dare any of you fail to heed his call for holy retribution.
“In a riot zone, after the Riot Act has been read, it’s legal for police to shoot and kill anyone caught looting.”
Hey, where’d you get your JD? You sound like you could be a great liar—err, lawyer. My view is that once chemical weapons are deployed there is no possible pretense that it is a “riot zone”—it is a war zone, and the law of war and natural law are all that bind. They did not commit any crime against the natural law, nor the law of God, so far as I can tell, but, then, I am not God, so I am not fit to judge these kids, and if they have sinned, it is against God alone, not against the Proletariat and its Mob of Vengeance Seekers.
Our Lord God in the Flesh cries “an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth”. How dare any of you fail to heed his call for holy retribution.
You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV
Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I shall reward.
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
And in the Holy Father Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, Chapter 3:
“9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. ”
Please tell me what part of Scripture contains the Riot Act: I must have missed it. Using scripture as a cloak for enforcing the malicious law of men, who have no legislative power, all of which belongs to God, is vicious.
The natural law is what is implicit in our common sense about what should be sacred, i.e. what compels us to renounce our desires to possess, destroy or consume. The natural law tells me your comments are nuts. Looting is not theft? tear gas after reading the riot act provides a license to loot? Do you really think these are ideas that deserve consideration? Those who can’t see society as anything other than a conspiracy of power reveal the decadence of certain contemporary “Christian” thought. Jesus said he came to complete the law, not to destroy it.
As for forgiveness, it is due to those who recognize their wrong and stop doing it; it is not meant to be our first response to crime. God’s covenant is not a suicide pact.
“Looting is not theft?”
“forgery…robbery, and fometimes for offences of a lighter kind…are, none of them, offences againft natural, but only againft focial, rights ; not even robbery itfelf, unlefs it be a robbery from one’s perfon : all others being an infringement of that right of property, which, as we have formerly feen, owes it’s origin not to the law of nature, but merely to civil fociety.” (4 Bl. Comm. 9)
I do not think it is tenable to make war on people via chemical weapons and then try to pretend civil society still exists; it is suspended. But even if it had not been suspended, looting is clearly only an offense against the positive and transitory law of civil society, not against the natural law.
“Jesus said he came to complete the law, not to destroy it.”
You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matt. 5:38-39)
Go ahead, try to twist that into something saying your desire to play God and exact vengeance is OK. It says in Deuteronomy Vengeance is Mine, I will Reward. Are you God? Is the proletariat mafia electorate God?
“As for forgiveness, it is due to those who recognize their wrong and stop doing it; it is not meant to be our first response to crime.”
43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, Lev. 19.18 and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Deut. 18.13
Lord, how many times am I to forgive my brother, seven times? What is the answer the Lord gives?
@ Regis @5:47
I think it’s silly to imply that “natural law” is something different from the basis for property rights in civil law. “Natural law” is clearly not biological but is rooted in the origin of human society as something quite distinct from nature’s pecking order. Human society begins with a new way of dividing up shared objects of desire/appetite; and what we make sacred under “natural law”, before dividing it in a specifically human way, has continuing resonance in modern property law.
It’s also silly to say that if the police use tear gas, then the social contract is voided in all respects and store owners lose their property rights, as if the police were just the tools of the bourgeoisie, one side in a class war, as if there is no implied covenant for civility between ordinary citizens. The police exist not just to defend property but also to defend young punks from store owners and neighbors who would take the law into their own hands if not for the advent of professional policing. We try to give the police a monopoly on violence for a good reason, and not as part of some conspiracy to war on the populace. THe need of modern commerical society for a professional warrior class is often a cause of intellectual difficulty and bad faith because the ethic of a warrior class is not reducible to that of commercial society and yet commercial society will self-destruct without some kind of warrior class alongside it. There is no money/value to be made in war or policing under the logic of market society. POlice violence is always an expense or a “necessary evil” that can only be seriously judged in terms of the professional ethics of the warrior class itself. If you have no faith in the police’s ability to judge themselves to carry out things like riot control with tactics that minimize (for they can never eliminate) violence, then you cannot exist in good faith with the reality of modern society.
The admonition to turn the other cheek is a call to de-escalate violence. It is crazy to think it should lead us to indulge or appease violence or not to stand up for the innocent in the face of it, like Chamberlains sacrificing Czechs to the fire. When you do harm to me alone, I can choose to turn the other cheek. When you threaten the very order of society, or threaten violence to innocent people, actions which will only escalate a desire for more sacrificial violence, I have to stand and fight for the inocent victim. Jesus also said he came with the sword. He was a rather more sophisticated thinker than your selective quotation credits.
Great response! I’ll start by addressing your selective quotation of Scripture. Here is a fuller quotation than the very tiny bit you quote:
“34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. ” (Matt. 10)
“When you do harm to me alone, I can choose to turn the other cheek.”
So you are willing to do what Jesus commanded if you are alone, but if you are in a group of people you perceive to be innocent, you fail to heed his advice and instead become adversarial? I think that’s very understandable as a primate-response, but it goes right to the heart of mob psychology—you have one set of values when there’s no mob, another when there is a mob. Just that you seem to think that your mob-values are the “right mob values,” no?
““Natural law” is clearly not biological but is rooted in the origin of human society as something quite distinct from nature’s pecking order. ”
Well, I’ll quote from de Legibus et Consuetudinibus Angliae:
“Natural law is defined in many ways. It may first be said to denote a certain instinctive impulse arising out of animate nature by which individual living things are led to act in certain ways. Hence it is thus defined: Natural law is that which nature, that is, God himself, taught all living things.”
Thus, natural law is for all living things, not simply for man. A dog knows natural law: you try to take its bone, it gets angry. A bear knows natural law: you go into its cave, it gets upset. Indeed, almost all social law, especially corporation-supporting law involves suppression of natural law in favor of a wholly artificial system of propaganda and brainwashing—but that’s another discussion.
“It’s also silly to say that if the police use tear gas, then the social contract is voided in all respects and store owners lose their property rights, as if the police were just the tools of the bourgeoisie, one side in a class war, as if there is no implied covenant for civility between ordinary citizens.”
I don’t think it is silly. It is an act of war; acts of war create wars, thus there is a suspension of law, law is for times of peace, arms for times of war.
“THe need of modern commerical society for a professional warrior class is often a cause of intellectual difficulty and bad faith because the ethic of a warrior class is not reducible to that of commercial society and yet commercial society will self-destruct without some kind of warrior class alongside it.”
This is a very good point, except “professional warrior class” is far too long-winded: “gang” is much more to the point. Specifically, a gang that enforces proletariat electoral mob rule. I don’t think it’s really the “bourgeoisie” who benefit, as they must all pay land-taxes and income-taxes to keep their estates; there are no more shopkeepers in the historical sense, only working-class tenants who are forced to pay protection money to support the Gang.
“the reality of modern society.”
The reality of society is that it is a contingent, not necessary, construction. To simply accept any part of society as necessary is to fail to accept that society—union, partnership, etc. is always negotiated, either explicitly or by acquiescence. This sort of rhetoric is, in my view, anti-intellectual and is typically deployed to justify the uglier aspects of ‘society’ that many (perhaps all) are too uncreative to make better.
Society is what the members of that union make it–one very interesting question is if one can be forced to belong to a national society simply by being present upon land that it claims—the earth and its fulness belong to God, so what are these men who draft people into their NAtional SocIetieS?
@Regis 6.48
A dog who fights when you try to steal his bone does not “know” “natural law”. He knows you are trying to steal his bone; he has no conception of law. He cannot stop and reflect on the meaning of the struggle for the bone. And if you are already established in his eyes as the alpha dog, he will simply concede with a whimper. He knows only dominance and submission, a one-on-one relationship. He cannot conceive a greater social good (or try to relate violence positively or negatively to it). He has no concept of a society organized around a sacred centre of shared attention. He has never seen an alpha dog get up to address a crowd as a whole, or be lynched in some kingly sacrifice. To have a concept of law is to know of something that is not natural. “Natural law” is thus an awkward term that points to the paradoxical “nature” of what is specifically human. Humans are animals but also much of something else besides.
“you have one set of values when there’s no mob, another when there is a mob. Just that you seem to think that your mob-values are the “right mob values,” no?”
No. I will turn the other cheek when i can bear your dishonourable conduct. Call me names and I can walk away. Threaten the very possibility of honour among us all, or present a much more serious threat to my person, and expect a violent response in self-defense. It has nothing to do with my acceding to mob values, unless in the circumstance I fail and do. All values come into existence before the violence that threatens them. The origin of the human is the act of representation, a deferral of violence. It is an anthropological error to see violence itself as foundational. THere is a difference between fighting for renewal of something already-established as sacred, as a source of order, and fighting to destroy what is sacred, offering only vague egoism in return. It does matter why you fight. Seeking to assert some kind of moral relativism by hyperbole that calls tear-gassing rioters “chemical warfare”, as if to provide license to anarchists, to give thoughtless egotism a veneer of intellectualism, is to war on all the instituted differentiations that make civil society possible.
“there are no more shopkeepers in the historical sense, only working-class tenants who are forced to pay protection money to support the Gang.”
-this is the same silly resentment and hyperbole. As if we are all or only tenants and never rentiers except presumably a few bankers, as if Vancouver’s economy is not based on millions of rent-seeking speculations fueled by cheap money, government jobs, government hand outs. IN any case, there are a few real entrepreneurs among us who take real risks to provide opportunites to others. If you can’t distinguish between the need for a state alongside civil society, and a criminal gang culture, it may be because your thinking has become unhinged by a relativizing desire to destroy real differences.
“The reality of society is that it is a contingent, not necessary, construction. To simply accept any part of society as necessary is to fail to accept that society—union, partnership, etc. is always negotiated, either explicitly or by acquiescence.”
Yes, our society is the creation of a series of historical contingencies. But these contingences emerged as a collective discovery of a way open for deferring our potential violence. They were necessary responses to a dangerous reality, though perhaps (only perhaps) not the only possible response. Freedom emerges from necessity thrown up by hard human realities. To recognize this is not anti-intellectual. It is merely anti-Gnostic.
National societies have always been a source of bad conscience for Christians. THe model of a nation is found in the Hebrew Bible. The New Testament speaks of a kingdom that is always only on the horizon of this world. It provides no model of a national church. When the Christian West translated the Bible into the local vernaculars and developed in each of the newly modern languages a particular high culture and nationalism as a way of developing modern societies, they did have to realize that closing certain doors on the word was nonetheless a way of maximizing human reciprocity in this world which can never be fully the Utopian promise of the kingdom of God. We have learned from the excesses of national high cultures to limit the sacrality we once accorded them. Still, civil society remains dependent (not wholly) on national boundaries as a basis for building covenantal order and democratic institutions. To lose faith in national society in all respects is to lose faith in the kind of reciprocity that has been shown to work in this world. To offer in return only vague promises of “creativity” and “intellectualism”, an entire world made Godly, is to promote Gnostic heresy and nothing more substantial. At least I see nothing to suggest otherwise. It is not a coincidence that Israel is today the only modern Western nation with enough love and confidence in its future that it has a (Jewish) birth rate well above replacement levels.
That’s part of the problem: Now it’s the VPD’s fault the riot got out of hand, why is that? Should have never got to that point! Do we have to have police monitor our every move so “we” don’t make mistakes? How many police do you think there should have been there to babysit? Give it up! It is noone’s fault other than the ones who made the stupid decisions, drunk, stoned or otherwise!!!!
“How many police do you think there should have been there to babysit? Give it up! It is noone’s fault other than the ones who made the stupid decisions, drunk, stoned or otherwise!!!!”
Municipal police departments have a duty to maintain law and order, not to lose it, then respond militarily to restore it. That is of course sometimes necessary, but it does not mean they did not lose it.
They did not have enough men, did not have a good plan, and if you really want to avoid similar in future, the only way is to address the systemic VPD/Provincial (no extra funding?) failure. Unless, of course, you want to do as Jim Chu has suggested, simply suppress the charter of rights and freedoms. What a great response to incompetence “We cannot maintain law and order, so let’s get rid of the law, then we can maintain order nice and easy!”
“people need to ..” I will give you an A for sticking to your guns when clearly the majority here dis-agree with you but lets be honest; as much as they may be facing a ton of public criticism, humiliation at home, work, etc; 6 days from now, 6 weeks from now, heck 6 months from now things in their lives will probably end up finding their way back to normalcy and hopefully the punishment will deter them from ever thinking about crossing the lines of right and wrong again. Will this public scolding cause them to fail at life? I highly doubt it. What this might accomplish from a “bigger picture” stand-point is that the next time Vancouver makes it to the Stanley cup finals and lose, which could very well be next year, hopefully the people that have participated in this quest for justice and punishing those that embarrassed all Canadians will have sent a strong enough message to the village idiots that participate in riots and mobs to make them think twice about doing it again. I am not a religious guy but there is a passage in the bible that conveys the message of being a good person isn’t defined by doing right when you are expected to but also when no one is watching and you can get away with doing wrong (or so they thought).
This particular young man has led a very priviledged life to this point. He engaged in hi-jinx in his youth, got caught and got a slap on the wrist. He was never truly held accountable for his disrespectful behavior back then so he goes away to university and his entitlement continues. He hasn’t learned; I doubt he ever will. So if he merely gets a soft reprimand, I imagine the next inappropriate act he commits will also warrant outrage from the masses but no real punishment for him. What are we teaching our youth? Entitlement after entitilement after entitlement. I suspect the “public” shame will be all that addds up for him and will disappear in a week or two. Mind you, he came from a small town and everyone knows about his latest transgression … but his priviledge will continue to look after him nonetheless.
yes, all those sinless small town folk know how to hate! Oh, wait, they’re not sinless, they’re hypocrites.
Captain Vancouver..I fucking love you man. Just saying that you have embraced the spirit of public shaming the scum that caused so much more than monetary damage to our city. Sarah and Luke are NOT real hockey fans. They are criminals hiding in the guise of hipster UBC students. They decided to steal and they were caught in the act by people who had cameras. Anything they get as consequences is FAIR GAME! Humiliation, expulsion from school, fired from their jobs..it’s all fair. Who the fuck would want this scum working for them? Who the fuck would want to be sitting in class next to them? They are both DIRT. Welcome to the digital age you two goofs. You deserve jail and public shaming. I’d personally love to punch both of them in the fucking face but since I’m not normally a violent person I’ll be happy knowing that both of these scumbags are going to be in a living HELL. Both of them better rethink their entire lives. Your faces have been forever preserved and passed along the internet and you are going to regret your fucking actions.
Uh, even under the Old Covenant, it’s an eye for an eye, not an eye for taking unattended merchandise. Imprisonment for imprisonment. If they are to be judged to anything, it is to make pecuniary satisfaction for the merchandise.
They did not imprison anyone, so why should they be imprisoned? To satisfy your sense of indignation?
Because under Canadian law (not Mosaic Law) they committed a crime. The sentence calls for imprisonment.
Therefore, give them imprisonment.
If you want to act on Mosaic law, then find a place that upholds it as the law of the land, and settle there.
“If you want to act on Mosaic law, then find a place that upholds it as the law of the land, and settle there.”
The Earth and its fullness belongs to God. Everyone who does not uphold the Law of God and the Law of God only is an enemy of the King and of the Law, which is the Law of God, for the Law of God is what makes the King.
As for the Law of God being binding, “le ley de dieu & le ley de terre sont tout un & lun & lauter pferre & favor le comon et publike byen del terre” (Keil. 191). Adjudged 8 H. 8 before all the Justices and Serjeants of England &c.
There is one Land, one Law, one God. Parliament is not God. We have been churning peace for some time, and though foolish, ignorant children suppose Corporations (artificial persons) may make law, as James says, there is one legislator and one judge: God.
Your nationalist socialist rhetoric is disgusting.
@people need to step back and breathe: you’re not going to convince anyone to stop posting. These kids used social media to organize/brag this chaos and now they are seeing social media bring them down. If you don’t like it, don’t read.
I have been drunk many more times than the douche bags causing problems last night….and I would NEVER do anything so stupid. It takes a special type of person to do that kinda shit…and alcohol is a pathetic excuse (if a pedophile goes out and gets drunk every time before molesting a child does that make it ok?).
Yes these kids made mistakes. But the courts are not going to do anything about it. That’s why it’s out job to publicly shame them. If they learn there are no consequences for their actions, we better used used to the sight of chaos and riots in our streets cause that’s where it’ll end up.
Anyone else think “people need to step back and breathe” is an actual parent of one of these idiots who got caught on film?
I am older. I have kids. No, I wouldn’t want them publically shamed. However, if either of them committed a crime- an actual crime on film- I wouldn’t fight for them to be excused.
Why not? Do you think jail is actually an effective corrective mechanism? It is not. Do you think a criminal record preventing employment/travel would improve your child’s behavior? It would not.
Clearly you do not love unconditionally; you condition your love on compliance with nationalist socialism and its statutes, not the statutes and judgments of the Lord God, which says we are to forgive our brothers and sisters their tresspasses.
Hey Regis, I’m sure I speak for many others when I say: “TAKE A HIKE”!!
Hey, Penis, I think I speak for myself when I say I don’t take orders from you. Regis Servi, not Penis Servi.
Regis, you don’t speak for yourself, the voices in your head speak for all 20 of your selves.
Wow, you are clearly a very nice Canadian, engaging in defamatory libel! So little respect for your Criminal Code.
i’m 6th generation and i don’t like you and your views – you’ve posted 50 messages in 3 days all apologizing for the rioters and calling us bad canadians. fuck off.
Ah, a nationalist.
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:28)
I don’t think you’re a bad Canadian; I think you’re an average Canadian. Whether or not that is good or bad, I do not know.
regis, you are the intolerant bigot in all of this, foisting your shit religious proverbs and platitudes on us. this is about identifying degenerate anti social types who raped our city – why don’t you go back to spreading the word the old fashioned way, you know – face to face – so people can look you in the eye when they tell you to fuck off.
The punishment that the criminal courts dispense will be light and almost non-existent. Face it, 2 university students caught stealing..as a first offence will likely result in probation and maybe a fine. I’m sorry but in my eyes, that is NOT justice.
These 2 need to be publicly shamed and humiliated. These are supposedly responsible adults in university? What a sad fucking sign that is. Hopefully, both of these idiots will be living a life in Hell for the next while and honestly..they deserve it.
Keep it up. More posts please.
WHAT WE NEED IS A MUSSOLINI TO KEEP ALL THESE RIFF RAFF IN LINE
lol, epic lulz, ty ty.
I think it’s terrific to see Vancouverites uniting to pursue justice. Without posting these pictures, their parents wouldn’t know, the police wouldn’t know and they would be emboldened to commit a subsequent crime because they got away with it. What about the taxpayers who have to foot the clean-up costs? And what about the shop owners? And what about the police who had to put their lives in danger? There are far more innocent parties who deserve our sympathies. The reputation of these hooligans is the LEAST of my concerns. Crime doesn’t pay and it’s a lesson they need to learn the hard way.
Is this the same Sarah McCusker?
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sarah-McCuskers-Blonde-Moments-/108931909127466?sk=wall
I think you’re correct there Robert:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.149904155030241.26072.108931909127466#!/photo.php?fbid=108932302460760&set=a.149904155030241.26072.108931909127466&type=1&theater
That unique smile/grimace and that dudes eyebrows look familiar don’t they?
No. This is not the same Sarah McCusker. Let’s not send the pitchfork mob at the wrong person, now.
No sympathy. Their riotious and looting acts will translate to higher insurance premiums for store owner who will unjustly pass it to the consumer. I’m tired of this shit, having to pay higher taxes and now possibly higher insurance and commodities. Fucking throw the book at them.
Don’t forget the new bylaws and regulations restricting future public events that are sure to follow. This will haunt Vancouver for many years.
Regardless, a career in art history is pointless without a passport.
These are people who would keep your wallet if they found it. Morally defective.
frank,
but,
…
it’s THEM.. don’t you know they need your wallet more than you??? sheesh stop being so selfish!! fukken canadians!!!
/sarcasm
This is by far the best discussion yet that I have seen not only about the riots, but the possibility of backlash against those who have wronged us. I am university educated, mid-thirties with 2 kids of my own, and was the ripe age of 19 when the 94 riots erupted. I was in Mexico at the time, but the majority of my friends were either down there or tried to go down to “experience” what was going on. I would have been there too. I would have been there this year if I could have.
I have been young, stupid, older and still stupid and when I was in university, I messed up big time. The very night we had our going away party after receiving our diplomas, someone spiked my drink with GHB (because that was funny) & I got obliterated. Not my fault nor my choice, and I tried to make it “not my fault” for what happened later, which was calling in a bomb threat (that I don’t recall, but it was read out to me painstakingly in court). That, ultimately, was my fault. No one took me seriously, no one was hurt. The 911 operator actually laughed because I was so incoherent. But I guess at the time, in the moment, it was “funny”. I still haven’t told my parents although I am pretty sure my dad knows, just because he is my Dad and has done his fair share of stupid things and parents always know, even when we think they don’t (at least for my generation) I had to plead guilty to some stupid 100 year old law to a judge who wanted to make an example out of me. Why? Because she thought it would prevent others from doing what I did.
Did I learn a lesson? Not until the process sunk in. There I was, college degree and a criminal record. I don’t know how many times I would later have that bite me in the ass. For something so stupid, something that I don’t even recall, for something that no one took seriously, I screwed my life up. But you know what? I am still here. I was able to convince a reputable employer that “in a moment where I was not in my right mind” it doesn’t, and did not, define me. But I did what I did, and what I did, was far less than what these or any of the rioters did. They knowingly got caught up in the moment, that kind of “having sex in public” sort of rush, but with devastating results. A poor choice. And poor choices have consequences that we cannot control. As a society, via our laws and our customs, we define what is acceptable and what is not. And what these faces of “The Riot” mean to us a society counts. It bears true significance. Are they why the riot happened? No. Are they the cause of the riot? No. Are they unfairly being singled out? No? Are they the symbolic representation of societies’ disgust in the acts that were thrown upon our collective identity…yes.
The reason we single out these people is because we can. They are the face of the disgust we all feel because of their actions; because we would not do that. Our society does not accept what they did. Period. As far as I am concerned, they were all read the Riot Act and should be held accountable for their own defiance of such, and of their personal choices to bring shame upon themselves, their families, their friends, their standing in society.
Their immediate surroundings are ruined: fair game. Their lives are not ruined. In that split moment of “should I?”; it will change our path irrevocably because it is life’s choices that defines our path, not who we are. I know this all too well.
To quote what the judge told me, and the lesson it took quite some time to understand: you made your own bed and now you have to sleep in it.
Well said!
These “people” aren’t the only ones who are being shamed or humiliated. There are at least a dozen Facebook pages dedicated to shaming the rioters and at least 6 non-Facebook pages. Understandably, people (not just Vancouverites) are outraged. The millions of dollars in damages, the higher costs for merchandise and insurance, the future of events in Vancouver. There are so many facets of normal lives that have been affected by the criminal actions of mindless, drunken, stupid criminals. What this site and others are doing is tantamount to taking back our sense of welbeing by making the perpetrators accountable for their actions.
This website and others aren’t targetting innocent people. You’ve seen the pictures and videos and it’s way too obvious that unintelligent, criminal opportunists DIDN’T think they could be held responsible for their misdeeds. Well..they are wrong.
The pictures and videos are now in the public domain. They are being shared and posted all over and now it’s the time where cowardly goof criminals are scurrying to cover their tracks, to scatter like cockroaches into the darkness to avoid the spotlight of public humiliation and the long arm of the law. It kinda makes hindsight 20/20 huh?
Well..keep posting the pictures and video. Many have been identified and the result is that consequences of bad behaviour are finally happening.
Nice to see that our educational system is an EPIC FAIL in addition to the VPD.
Nobody taught you “innocent until proven guilty,” I see.
someone offended & Shame The Scum both very well said, you’ve articulated it much better than I could!
Enjoy your $29.95 blouses…I spent a lot of time merchandising them. Dick.
No it’s not. Just a suggestion, don’t be a dick to whatever poor kid works at the pet store.
There seems to be a lot of debate about whether public shaming is the right way to go (and even suggestions to let God be the judge). If God existed, then maybe. Or if the Buddhist or other religious Gods did, they could do something more. But there’s also no scientific proof that they do.
Why would you feel sorry for these kids? They’re only being judged for the crimes they’ve been caught on camera of doing. They stole merchandise from an open window. No one’s claiming they’re the people who broke the windows, or saying they were throwing rocks at police, or putting them in the same light as Mr. Car Fire Starter Nathan Kotylak. Like that Li kid, they weren’t the worst of the bunch. But they’re still criminals. So let’s identify them as such.
Ever read the Charter of Rights and Freedoms? If God does not exist, you had better move to China, where they share your values, ’cause they don’t here, and it is only a matter of time until the Ancient Law is restored, and then a lot of nationalist socialists who made up fake laws to control people and to empower corporations are going to have some explaining to do.
RegisServi your comments on this post are incoherent and contradictory.
“If God does not exist, you had better move to China, where they share your values,…”
Is China my only choice? I’d like a few more. Not to take away from the Chinese, but I like options…. 🙂
Though, I do like a good dim sum.
“RegisServi your comments on this post are incoherent and contradictory.”
Give examples.
Maybe you just don’t get it?
I’ll explain anything you like, and if you can show an honest contradiction, I’ll be glad to look at it, but I think by “incoherent” you mean “disagreeable to me” and by “contradictory,” I wonder why you don’t simply cite a contradiction.
And another bit…
“But they’re still criminals”
Criminals are people who’ve been convicted by due process in a court of competent jurisdiction. For all you know, you are mistaking the people in the picture with other people who look like them.
What this whole thread and website illustrates is that many people who fancy themselves non-criminals have a totally criminal attitude toward justice and believe in extrajudicial punishment, not the Rule of Law.
OK, I’ll rephrase. “alleged criminals.”
The courts are way too lenient when it comes to prosecution and conviction of criminals. Tell me that these two had justifiable and legal right to take possession of the property and give us the legal foundation for it, please. Simply put, these two are caught redhanded in the act of theft. I’m positive if they had waited until the next day, the store would have happily sold them the merchandise they chose to steal during a riot.
I’m sorry but innocent until proven guilty isn’t holding much of an argument here. Considering that there were people who were beat up trying to prevent looting and vandalism. You see, the mob mentality and riot psychology prevents a few honest people from being able to stop hundreds of thieves and vandals and thugs. Do you know that firefighters and paramedics were pelted with cans and bottles while trying to do their jobs? Do you realize that the insurance costs due to theft, vandalism and arson affect all of us?
Please, before you defend the scum or their actions or their legal rights, you better have a law degree.
The acts these criminals perpetrated are not defensible. The best thing they could do is plead guilty and beg for forgiveness in court. On the internet, their photos will define them as scum for as long as their images are accessible. I hope these 2 remember what great lives they had before the riots because I promise you, they won’t be the same any more.
Will the idiot that keeps posting rants about the theories about this just GTFO. This is a GREAT way to deter future violence and criminal activity. It seems fairly obvious that the person trying so hard to get this site down (people need to…) is doing it for a reason.
These people consciously decided to break the law. They were not arrested and would not be arrested unless someone did something (and even if they were it would be a mild punishment for sure). The person running this site is doing something. Thank him! (or her)
the only reason he’s doing it is because he’s got a chemical imbalance – it’s called meth
“These people consciously decided to break the law.”
Did they?
I don’t see any violations of the Law in any of the pictures posted—only of the positive laws of society, and I think there’s a great argument to be made that once war begins, social laws are suspended. Chemical Weapon Deployment = Open Warfare.
Regisservi, I realize you believe your religion is the true religion. There are many religions in the world, all with different beliefs. Some people have no beliefs. So, in the case that your religion is NOT in fact the one true religion, what do we do? Do we let murderers go to be judged by a fictitious God? Do we let people take whatever they want? You say the goods were unattended so there was no crime. We don’t live in the dark ages anymore. Without laws to restrict criminal acts, and without the punishment that follows such acts the world would be even more chaotic than it is today.
In my opinion, parenting is too lax these days. There are rarely repercussions because a large number of parents refuse to believe their child would do anything wrong. Resulting in no experience of punishment. Unless we mete out punishment no one will learn. We only live so long. I don’t think our short lives should be ruined by criminal acts because God will punish them in the after life. Absolutely ridiculous. You sir/ma’am are ignorant.
I notice you also seem to have a lot of hate for the VPD. Have many problems with them? They do their jobs, you do whatever yours is. Of course there are some who take their power for granted, the majority however do not. They were attempting to prevent criminal actions (albeit, poorly) which were hampered by thousands of bystanders with cameras. If the crowd had dispersed as they were told to there would have been no crowd for the criminals to hide behind.
I’ve noticed you seem to support people having the freedom to do whatever they like. I’m assuming you haven’t put yourself in the shoes of the vehicle and store owners that were affected, as well as the injured parties who were too stupid to leave. How would you feel if you were affected? Would you really want to wait for your God to judge them after they pass? Would you want them to miss immediate punishment and potentially have them commit another crime? I agree prison is generally not an acceptable solution. I’m all for harsher punishment though. Capital punishment in some cases (murder, rape, etc.) I’ve been affected by harsher crimes though. Have you? Its all well and good to live in your own little world, but there’s a whole planet full of other people than yourself.
“I notice you also seem to have a lot of hate for the VPD.”
I don’t think you’re a mind-reader. I am highly critical of how they handled this operation, and I also have an aversion to having military men roam the streets with guns and armor, cloth or metal. If we are at war such that we need troops patrolling the streets, let’s have it said publicly who those soldiers are at war with, and why they roam about with weapons and cloth armor on their shoulders. Personally, I am more frightened of the VPD and the personality type that believes itself fit to dispense violence as part of a Gang than I do hate them. I more wonder exactly where their parents went wrong, and I wonder especially if corporal punishment was a large part of their upbringing.
“I’ve noticed you seem to support people having the freedom to do whatever they like. I’m assuming you haven’t put yourself in the shoes of the vehicle and store owners that were affected, as well as the injured parties who were too stupid to leave.”
No, I support people having freedom, which is the natural power of doing whatever is not forbidden by law or by force. The issue is “what law”? I have a big belief in dialogue, and I am skeptical of people who jump to conclusions, especially conclusions that would ruin the lives of others.
“Would you want them to miss immediate punishment and potentially have them commit another crime?”
This is a matter of obligation, not a matter of what I “want.” Even if I “wanted” as a sinful human being to punish people, is that my duty? Is it my office to take vengeance? Vengeance is mine, says the Lord, I will reward. Am I the Lord? If I am not, my “want” is irrelevant.
“I agree prison is generally not an acceptable solution. I’m all for harsher punishment though. Capital punishment in some cases (murder, rape, etc.) I’ve been affected by harsher crimes though. Have you? Its all well and good to live in your own little world, but there’s a whole planet full of other people than yourself.”
Capital punishment is a violation of the law, for it says “thou shalt not murder.” And sorry, sanctimonious “if you haven’t been victim of a harsher crime, your views are unwelcome” is useless. The only people who should speak about crime are those whose view is emotionally tinged by having been victimization?
Yes, there is a whole planet full of other people, but do you know what a big sin is? “I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.” (I samuel 15:24)
He was Computer Science now he is History, like his girlfriend.
The political spin started that night. The Mayor, Premier and Solicitor General must single out the anarchists as the cause, whether they were or not, and claim it was a small group of rioters. This must be done to try to hoodwink the public into believing that their family, friends and neighbours could never do these bad things and that society is still okay. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen a whole lot of professional anarchists on any of the rioter websites. Other than that fart catcher Dustin, most are seemingly normal people who only needed a slight push to go over to the dark side.
“Do we let murderers go to be judged by a fictitious God”
See, this is a disingenuous sort of question. One of the consequences of leaving Judgment to God is an admittance that you cannot Judge—that is, this is not just a way of having God do what you would do. You don’t know what God would do, and anyone who suggests God would necessarily punish someone presumes to know the Mind of God—not his expressed will, but his mind in total.
“You say the goods were unattended so there was no crime”
There was no crime against anything but the law of society. Even “theft”, unless it be from a man’s person, is a crime merely social in nature. And do not try to tell me it is not—if that is not the case, if there is an invariant natural law against -ever- removing -anyone’s- possessions, then drug prohibition is unlawful, so is income taxation, so is the census. I don’t think most society-boosters really think through the consequences of their views very well.
And if society had broken down at that time, if it was a war zone, does the law of society bind? Does the law of society bind even when the Socialist Police are using overt military tactics, like Chemical Warfare? I think this is a valid point and requires more debate than simply the suggestion that the majority rules—that in itself is simply military rule: might makes right. So why does that apply on an electoral-district scale, but not on a much smaller scale, when a small group of people assert their might?
“the world would be even more chaotic than it is today”
I can say without any hesitation that most of the chaotic quality to the world today is caused by corporations and their uncritical supporters, many of whom don’t even know what a corporation is—or if they do, they take perverse glee in the idea that living things with souls are subject to fictitious devices. Really, though, the world is not that chaotic—massmedia makes it appear far more chaotic than it is in order to sell ad-space and to manipulate the proletariat for electoral purposes.
“Unless we mete out punishment no one will learn.”
Learn what? Why are you so confident that you know what people ought to learn?
“I don’t think our short lives should be ruined by criminal acts because God will punish them in the after life. ”
I never said that. I am not God, so I don’t know if he will punish them or not.
If UBC has any class they’ll expel these two criminal shitheads.
No, RegisServi are not God and no one here is supposing that we are either. God really has no place in this discussion. Nor really do you or your opinions, as they really don’t constitute an argument. We as a society are passing along our judgement that these fools contravened the laws that we set up. Actually everyone in these photos is guilty. They were read the riot act. They chose not to leave. They ALL BROKE THE l LAW. Whether or not you agree with that law is of little or no consequence. Petition your MP or go back to your commune. No one seems to grasp the fact that they were all breaking the law at the time these people were captured on film. That aside, “people” who do not possess enough common sense to understand that in our day and age they are being watched with permanent records being created of their actions deserve every ounce of shaming they receive. Even more so when these “people” are caught doing even stupider things that they know have consequences.
Regis Servi was in the riots. He/She was a looter and probably punched a cop too.
This illustrates the quality of reasoning of many of the posters here pared down to its raw, unseemly core.
your quality of reasoning is so infectious that I ended up getting it… you looter.
I forgive you, and I will pray for you.
❤ ❤ ❤
"All you need
All you really need
Is good love"
“They were read the riot act. They chose not to leave. They ALL BROKE THE l LAW.”
Well, now we must descend into a very arcane matter: the Riot Act is an Act, not the Law. The Law is right wisdom proceeding from the mind of God commanding what is right and prohibiting the contrary. I don’t know that man has any legislative power, so if the Riot Act is not in scripture, and if it does not amplify the principles of Scripture, I am uncertain as to whether or not it is a valid Law.
“We as a society are passing along our judgement that these fools contravened the laws that we set up.”
What your post illustrates is a deep-seated lack of respect for a bedrock value of the legal system: innocent until proven guilty by a court of competent jurisdiction. And I suppose you can argue that such a principle is misguided and useless and even wrong-headed, but I cannot really accept such, nor can I think it is properly part of a Free and Democratic Society, as Canada purports to be.
“Petition your MP or go back to your commune.”
What is an MP? You sound districted =]
we are not convicting these people
the pictures are online
we are putting names to faces, forwarding them to the vpd
how is this anything but innocent until proven guilty? is this not why we use the word ‘alleged’?
take off your tinfoil hat, bub
““They were read the riot act. They chose not to leave. They ALL BROKE THE l LAW.””
That’s a determination of lawbreaking right there. There are some moderately reasonable posters, but the overall tone of these threads is vitriolic and incredibly puerile—and a tone underlying these threads is that the Justice System won’t be satisfactory until it is equally as vitriolic and puerile. I suggest that people who like that sort of thing move to China.
“take off your tinfoil hat, bub”
“Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.” (Revelation 3:11)
Actually, once the Riot Act has been read, simply being there means you are committing an offense and are presumed guilty as such. These people are guilty of that. They are not afforded the luxury of “the presumption of innocence” whereby the burden of proof lay within the Crown. Being a rioter denies the rioter access to the principle of “Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat ” which is fine by me. Supplementary incrimination for other crimes committed during a Riot are subject to the regular due process of law. But the people captured in these pictures and videos are also guilty of being douchebags. Being a douchebag is not defined in scripture either but we all know one when we see one. And when we are fortunate enough to be able to put a name to the face and pull them out of their cowardice we can give each other high fives and feel better about ourselves because we have yet again proven the validity of Social Darwinism.
“Actually, once the Riot Act has been read, simply being there means you are committing an offense and are presumed guilty as such.”
Where is there?
Let’s quote the full maxim:
Ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat; cum per rerum naturam factum negantis probatio nulla sit. – The proof lies upon him who affirms, not upon him who denies; since, by the nature of things, he who denies a fact cannot produce any proof.”
“These people are guilty of that. They are not afforded the luxury of “the presumption of innocence” whereby the burden of proof lay within the Crown.”
Yes, they are. I don’t know why you think that prosecutions under the criminal code’s riot sections would be exempt from the ordinary course of the law. A Prosecutor would have to prove identity, jurisdiction, quantity, quality all those things. And that’s within a court of competent jurisdiction. If you find one, let me know.
“But the people captured in these pictures and videos are also guilty of being douchebags. Being a douchebag is not defined in scripture either but we all know one when we see one.”
I don’t. Honestly, I have tried to contort my thinking into a sewer-system of excremental metaphor, but it hasn’t worked very much. I guess I am not the easily suggestible type 😦
“we can give each other high fives and feel better about ourselves because we have yet again proven the validity of Social Darwinism.”
epic lulz, ty.
http://beta.jerkcity.com/jerkcity336.html
Pretty sure having your face pictured and identified committing an indictable offence is enough evidence needed to convict these goofs. Every single one of them.
The Criminal Code requires the assembled people to disperse within 30 minutes. Paragraph 68 provides for the life imprisonment should the proclamation be ignored.
We all know that this will never happen unfortunately.
What I don’t quite grasp is what you are wanting Herr Naturalist?
“Pretty sure having your face pictured and identified committing an indictable offence is enough evidence needed to convict these goofs”
Well, this depends on the quality of the identification, and it could always be mistaken identity. And then there are exceptions. I have not gotten into it, but the “court of competent jurisdiction” is very important, as there may be exceptions that accrue to people due to the person of the judge, the power of the judge, the person of the prosecutor, &c &c. It takes a lot more than what the public thinks it requires to secure a conviction—is a photograph with a positive identification a good start? Maybe.
On this post specifically, only one of the photographs shows any facial features, and it is grainy and unfocused at best. Who is the eye witness to say “I took that photo, and those individuals accused are the ones I saw taking those things out of the store”? And then it is not really the photo that is the better evidence, but the testimony of the one who took the photo. Putting up these photos is prejudicial, and it does not come, in my view, from a mature sense of the Rule of Law—indeed you have many posters here longing for the atavistic tribal custom of, more or less, starving people to death by social exclusion if ‘the community’ deems them unfit. Why not call them ‘useless eaters’ and be done with it? The fundamental problem with the Nazis wasn’t their philosophy or their methodology—they simply picked on the _wrong group_, at least that is the vibe I get from many of the posters here. Violate the “volk” and you should be punished with death or, basically, a life of privation. I don’t think that’s justice.
“What I don’t quite grasp is what you are wanting Herr Naturalist?”
If you mean me, I’m not a Herr, I am a Servi. Servi is the opposite of Lord/Herr.
What do I want?
Ideally, this would be used to highlight the ineffectiveness of the VPD. Should there be criminal prosecutions? Well, I am not a prosecutor—I believe in forgiveness, and I am very thankful that there were no deaths. Property can be replaced. Life cannot. That’s the other problem here, people who damaged property being treated as though they’re worse than murderers and that they should have their lives destroyed—and not as an unhappy consequence, but because it satisfies the primate-rage-complex being displayed by many of the posters. Even Old Testament Justice wasn’t that insane: An eye for an eye? Fine, damage property, pay pecuniary restitution. I don’t see how imprisonment is equitable, given that there was no imprisonment by, for example, the two people allegedly depicted in the above photos.
“The Criminal Code requires the assembled people to disperse within 30 minutes. Paragraph 68 provides for the life imprisonment should the proclamation be ignored.”
I wonder if that has ever been tested against the Charter’s peaceful assembly provision, esp. if the majority of the crowd is peaceful, which by all evidence in the video, etc. it was. It _might_ be a justified restriction on freedom of assembly, but I don’t think it is, actually. The people, peaceful people, should not be grouped with rioters, and if the peaceful want to hang around to observe and report, I think that is their freedom at work.
And then we could get into the difference between the old Riot Act and the Criminal Code provisions which remove qualifiers that, in my view, are necessary to get to the heart of the matter. Read the old Riot Act and then read the Criminal Code sections. There are differences.
Finally, I cannot under any circumstances condone chemical warfare against anyone. That’s what CS Gas is, chemical warfare, banned in international conflicts by a covenant that only five nations in the world (Canada not being one of them) have not acceded to/ratified. I find it repugnant that tactics thought unfit for international conflict are deployed against a largely peaceful crowd of civilians who were not given any direction as to where to proceed safely. It is all well and fine for people sitting at home to have epic lulz at the “idiots” who just milled about, but if you have not been subject to chemical warfare, or a riot atmosphere, you simply don’t know what it is like.
Armchair generals are great—for repeating things they’ve heard on TV. Not so good for providing actual constructive comments on how to improve order in future.
It’s illegal in warfare because it can cause an escalation to other chemicals which are actually deadly. I’ve been CS’d and there is no long-term effects to it. Would you rather the police have no non-lethal weapons at their disposal? Should they just start shooting into the crowd instead? A mob is the single most dangerous situation a police officer has to deal with. The use of these area denying non-lethal weapons save lives and help dissipate large retarded crowds.
I see you’ve read the WikiPedia, tho you’re not citing it. Here’s from the actual Convention:
“Determined for the sake of all mankind, to exclude completely the possibility of the use of chemical weapons, through the implementation of the provisions of this Convention, thereby complementing the obligations assumed under the Geneva Protocol of 1925,
Recognizing the prohibition, embodied in the pertinent agreements and relevant principles of international law, of the use of herbicides as a method of warfare,
Considering that achievements in the field of chemistry should be used exclusively for the benefit of mankind, ”
Chemistry is for the benefit of mankind, not for one group of men to control others.
“I’ve been CS’d and there is no long-term effects to it.”
You don’t know that—it is also impossible/unethical to conduct controlled long-term studies on the potential neurotoxic/carcinogenic effects of CS Gas or other chemical weapons. And then there are the psychological effects of having your “police officers” deploy chemical weapons against you which are probably not very well studied at all. I suspect it creates a manifest disrespect for law enforcement for the very reason that it shows they’re not law enforcement—they’re a Wehrmacht with a good PR Department.
“Would you rather the police have no non-lethal weapons at their disposal? ”
I want them to have enough men on the ground so that they don’t need to resort to converting areas into little warzones, which is not compatible with liberty. They must target the _individuals_ performing violent acts, not everyone indiscriminately. The reason they did not do this was lack of manpower. They needed an order of magnitude more men than they had. I’ve read they had 500-800. They needed 5000-8,000. But who wants to pay that much property tax just to have Hockey Parties? So the solution is to not have these sorts of large events, but then we’re not a world class city, the criminals have won!
“A mob is the single most dangerous situation a police officer has to deal with.”
Not at all. Mobs are very unlikely to stomp someone to death, and if unprovoked by androids trying to protect nonliving materials (cars, HBC, etc.) they’re likely going to focus solely on smashing material objects. The potential for violence comes in when dogooders, rather than turning the other cheek, act righteously angry about the destruction of material objects. They’re making war on a superior crowd, so, yeah, they might get stomped—but to death? Probably not, just a little knock to remind them that you don’t make war unless you think you can win—unless you’re a ‘droid programmed to care more about the HBC than your own safety.
“The use of these area denying non-lethal weapons save lives and help dissipate large retarded crowds.”
No, it did not. The concentration used is not even sufficient to really disperse the whole crowd. What it does is disperse some of the crowd allowing for the use of overtly military tactics, like dogs and lines of troops marching down the street in formation. If they simply marched in formation without first dispersing some of the crowd, they’d have far more casualties and there would be many confused, innocent bystanders harmed.
Further, once CS gas is deployed, it becomes incredibly difficult to know which way to go. If I go right, is there more gas? Left, more gas? Well, there doesn’t seem to be that much here…better to stay put, hopefully the police will restore order and direct us..and in the meantime, let’s take some whacky photos.
CS Gas converts the area into a warzone, and, I don’t like to say this, but people in a warzone are governed by the jus bellum, the law of war, and prosecuting people for acts of war in a warzone is not cricket. Of course, I doubt that would ever be accepted domestically, because the bulk of “police action” is actually making war on people, capturing them, causing them to submit, the “law” being nothing more than a treaty between the occupying proletariat mafia and their captures.
Reggie,
Was an actual declaration of war delivered to the rioters’ embassy? Didn’t know they had one…it must have been at the London Drugs cosmetic department. A little obscured by the burning wreckage of a proud city.
Canada being a signatory to the Geneva Convention has very little to do with what you are espousing. This was not “war” and if you think so you might want to open a book, but please understand the context of what you are attempting to make as supporting arguments. “the very reason that it shows they’re not law enforcement—they’re a Wehrmacht with a good PR Department” sounds very pedestrian and cliché. If you are trying to liken the VPD to the Nazis come out and say it, but your argument may suffer as a result. In a choice between CS Gas, Chlorine Gas, or hollow-point bullets, which would you prefer the police use against its “citizens”? You would be just as happy to say none of the above and let your city degenerate into anarchy. We do not feel the same.
You actually said, “Further, once CS gas is deployed, it becomes incredibly difficult to know which way to go. If I go right, is there more gas? Left, more gas?”
Mr. Basso & McCusker and their compatriots were actually seeking refuge from that awful CS gas in the safety of the Bay? Alas, finding nothing but further chaos our heroes decide to take those shirts to cover their innocent and unbelieving eyes and mouths as they fled all that “sudden anarchy”?
The merchandise at the HBC that you so despise was not yours, not the rioters, not the child-labourers you think made them, no one else’s but the HBC. It is not anything but private property. Much the same as your computer, your TV, you clothes, etc. This “vigilante mob” that you so despise wants to smash in your computer (just out of curiosity what brand of computer are you typing on?) for sounding contrary to those who were offended by what happened. Yet we live in a free-thought society that allows you to wantonly misconstrue the value of what you think your life means. We thankfully don’t live in Syria or any other country where others get to impose their theological/philosophical/political/ views upon us, ergo allowing you to think and write the way you feel like. This means that unless an individual takes it upon themselves to try and physically stop you no one is coming in the middle of the night to take you away because you want to disagree with societal norms.
Our society is upset at what these privileged snots did. And by privileged I mean by living in Canada. That is our privilege. You may try to shame us in a multitude of ways but when it comes down to ethereal reality the common & accepted ideal here is: if you didn’t want to be shamed for your actions you had the choice not to participate. I think you might actually be shocked at how many people would have cared little if the police/government/state/people had gone in and busted some moronic heads and chose not to “gas their own people” as you would make it seem.
This is our country. Our society. If you don’t like it, leave. You are free to do so. If you choose to disobey our laws your will be punished by our laws. If you don’t like it, leave. You are free to do so. You choose to shun our customs, you will be shunned yourselves. If you don’t like it, leave. You are free to do so. Unless you are incarcerated for being stupid enough to riot. Over a sport played by millionaires making money for billionaires. I’ll bring some disguises and incendiary devices to mingle with the families and their kids. Better yet, I’ll take a couple of shirts for Dad for Father’s Day. Proletariat indeed.
The greatest gift of a being a human being is that of free thought. But the greatest responsibility a human has is what one chooses to do with that free thought.
I don’t think I’ll take that shirt. And then laugh about it and have my picture taken.
I don’t think I’ll watch as my girlfriend takes that shirt. And then laugh about it and have my picture taken .
I don’t think I will smash that smart car with the tire iron I brought. And then laugh about it and have my picture taken.
I don’t think I’ll burn that cop car. And then laugh about it and have my picture taken.
I don’t think I will throw a brick at that other human being’s head. And then laugh about it and have my picture taken.
It is time for people to take responsibility for themselves and their actions.
regis is typing on a Dell, specifically the ones at the public library (you know, paid with money from the evil state – taxdollars!)
later he and his dog are going to make an ironic sign asking for change while at the same time admitting it’s for beer and weed.
Yes thanks for reminding me this is my son whom I’m quite proud of btw. He is an accomplished young man who found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. Thanks Capt Vancouver for the guilty before trial verdict. As you can clearly see…..if anyone is actually looking and not just reading your misguided caption…….Luke is “not” looting anything. Simply observing. Short of tackling the looters I’m not sure how he could have prevented any of the insanity that took place that day. Like so many of the others who stood and watched the burning cars and breaking of windows……..are they guilty as well? Maybe we should arrest all of the 100,000 that gathered that day. Would this suffice? What should they have done? Used violence to stop the looters?? You defaming an innocent individual does nothing to right this wrong. Direct your accusations at those actually guilty of a crime. Your “guilt by association” approach is counter productive and damaging to an innocents future. In many ways you are simply no better than the looters themselves.
Like so many of the others who stood and watched the burning cars and breaking of windows……..are they guilty as well?
Yes, they are guilty of not leaving a riot.
If they stayed, could they have done something other than watch? Yes. Apparently, there was a group of 15-20 people who slowed the rioters long enough to save chapters from being set on fire. Luke is clearly not doing that.
It’s understandable that you would defend your son. Maybe he didn’t steal anything. As I said in another post, it would be nice if this was all the fault of easily identifiable “bad” people. But they are not. It sucks that Luke’s choices are having negative consequences for you. I’m sure the emails sent by some of the posters here are pretty harsh and probably unfair.
But you show no sign of contrition in your post. You show no sign that you think your son might have been doing something wrong. This is pretty dismaying to me and suggests that you aren’t taking what Luke did do seriously.
The fact is that this photo is taken late in the evening, after sunset: hours after the riot began. Why is he in the DT core? Part of the reason police could not control the riot was that the number of “observers” as you point out was so huge. The photos appear to show him watching Ms. McCusker taking stolen goods – did he really have no ability to intervene to stop an ~18 year old girl from making a bad choice?
These participants in the riot (and yes, by choosing to “observe”, they are participating) are essentially in the way of police trying to calm things down and arrest the “real” looters. In situations like this, a looter with a shirt over his face becomes indistinguishable from an ‘observer’ when he joins the crowd of ‘innocent’ observers and pulls his shirt down off his face. In that context, the entirety of the crowd (hoodlums+observers) must be assumed to be hostile to police should they attempt to stop the looting. Given that the safety of police officers is a primary concern of any operation, bystanders like your son are one of the main reasons the riot got out of control. Their numbers represented a safety liability to police that they did not have the numbers to overcome. This is why they were not able to go in and arrest those causing the bulk of the damage.
So yes, your son may not have been actively looting, (at least the photos here may not show that – his presence at the scene of the crime does make him a suspect) but he is not simply someone who was caught in the ‘wrong place at the wrong time’. I believe that the images show your son is obstructing a police operation and that he is a participant in a riot. I believe all those observers who did nothing either to intervene or to leave the area should face some kind of punishment.
I don’t expect your son to be fighting those who are looting, I expect him to be getting himself out of dodge as fast as he possibly can, so that there is one less person for the poiice to worry about. I was at Dunsmuir and Richards when the riot was starting and desperately trying to leave downtown with my wife in our car. We got out of town as quickly as possible. Tens of thousands of others left too. Police were desperately trying to get people out of the area. A 20 minute walk was all it took to be in a quiet part of town, away from any riot and out of the way. The riot area was a few square blocks. Anyone who stayed was not intending to leave. This includes your son.
As I posted yesterday, this is not easy for this city. It is difficult for all of us to understand and make meaning here. It’s ripped out a piece of our soul.
Instead of lashing out against those who are rightly outraged by the actions of those who participated or those “observers” who didn’t bother getting out of the way, tell us what Luke is doing to help make amends. Tell us what you are doing to make amends. Show some sympathy for the real victims of this riot (I’d include you among them, actually). This won’t destroy Luke’s life or future if he takes responsibility for his role and works diligently to undo what he and the rest of those who participated in a riot did. We all make mistakes. Don’t compound the mistake by casting him as an innocent victim.
If you correct the record with what he didn’t do, why don’t you also take the opportunity to own up to what he did do?
I can see now why he is involved in the riot with a shitty parent like you.
hey gaiiiiisss, don’t hurt anyone’s feelings or anything
They were read the Riot Act and thought that didn’t apply to them? That makes them criminals. Looting it in the midst of that riot makes him in the wrong place at the wrong time? Come to grips with reality. They made poor choices that have repercussions, the least of which should be coming from the likes of us.
Don’t use the cliche, “wrong place at the wrong time” for this situation, it is poorly used here. Standing under a tree when a lighting bolt fries your ass is a good time to use the cliche. Sarah, Luke and the unknown third person saw a temptation. A broken window and mechandise within reach; and, although your son does not appear to be looting, he is an accomplist. If no one took the photo, an immoral person would argue, they were at the “right place at the right time.” A choice is a choice. He was downtown during a riot, could have left, could have stayed home. He sees his friends looting, could have convinced them to stop, could have walked away. We all make our choices in life. Let him be a man and live by them. If you say he is as accomplished as he is, then you should also believe he can take some heat if he did nothing wrong.
To Joe:
I know being a parent is the hardest job in the world, my sympathies go out to what you and your family must be going through but your son witnessed a crime. You don’t just “stand around” when a crime is occuring. By your logic there is nothing wrong with “standing around” when an old lady has her purse stolen, when a girl is being assaulted, etc. A crime is a crime.
The biggest problem is that your son seems to go along with the crowd. You need to teach your son to stand up, not follow. A lot of people “follow” their friends by getting into a car with a drunk driver. Would you want your son to just go along with that and end up dead due to not standing up?
This is the perfect opportunity for your son to learn a very valuable lesson. Would you have stood around while your adult friends robbed a store? I doubt it. You would either step in and tell your friends to stop or you would realize that this is a situation not to be in and you would leave.
By excusing his behaviour you are setting him up to make some very bad decisions in the future.
i know that hearing people say awful things about your son must be ripping you apart but this is the time when you need to stop being their friend and act like their parent.
If this had happened to me, my parents would be devastated but they would never have defended my actions. My parents have my back and I can count on them for anything but they would never, ever excuse my bad behaviour. Please, please just step up to the plate and teach your son right from wrong. And standing by watching a crime being committed is wrong. Thank you for listeing.
A riot has happened two times too many in Vancouver. I think the only way to ensure that it doesn’t happen again is to make an example of those who participated in this riot; to let anyone who might consider such actions in the future know that there is no getting away with this kind of behavior, no matter what the “madness of the moment.” Although ideally it might be best to leave this up to our legal system, due to the large amount of people who will need to be processed by the courts, lack of sufficient evidence, age of the charged etc. I’m not certain the legal system will be able to supply sufficient consequences. So I do believe that this site fills an important role of a community that has been wronged standing together and saying “this is not OK. We do not support this no matter the circumstance.”
Getting CS gassed by police in Canada is a far cry from say being a Kurd back in the 80’s and 90’s. And these morons are not being treated worse than murderers or rapists. And to say that their lives are being ruined is a little simplistic, especially given what technology exists all around them. They are being pointed & shunned for their transgressions against what has now been set as the social norm.
And you are wrong when you suggest those peaceful people have a right to observe & record what is going on around them because they were told by the police/government/society (via laws) that they must leave, must not stand around peacefully and record what was going on around them. That right was taken away from them.
Great way to justify gassing people during “peacetime.” Why not admit civil order broke down, that a warzone erupted? Answer: then you cannot use the fiction of law to justify “riot” prosecutions, especially against individual belligerents who are not signatories to any restrictive covenants re: warfare. Maybe the people need a Covenant with the Union to restrain it from using gas warfare?
The criminal apologists that come on to this site and spread their PC nonsense are such pathetic little weasels.
‘This is a “hate site!” Leave those kids (criminals) alone! Waaah!’
Gimme a fucking break. I’m so sick of the radical-left PC pansies in this country.
Retracted and edited original post stating that Luke Basso was looting or a rioter. In this photo he’s observing Sarah McCusker removing clothing from a broken store window. It is my opinion that Sarah looks like she’s looting or at least helping someone else do so.
If you do the crime, you have to pay the penalty. These ignorant offenders need to be sent to Iraq to really know what being tough is…if they think they are so tough…
can we please block the user ‘regis s’ he is spamming the shit out of these threads.
Can I just say that I’m the person who took these photos and saw first hand what happened that night.
Not only did his girlfriend Sarah loot the H&M clothes, she first picked one shirt she wanted, then decided to hell with it… and took a bunch. Which you can clearly see in the pictures.
Her boyfriend stood by the entire time and just laughed as his girlfriend took the shirts. Instead of stopping her he just stood back and you could even say encouraged her actions.
Here’s another picture out of the set that i took, showing her climbing up onto the store ledge that I hadn’t uploaded before
http://imageshack.us/f/190/24987510150212588096429.jpg/
No Van-kid,
You must be making a mistake. Luke Basso is a good kid that we are proud of. He just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. There is no possible way that anything he did was wrong. It’s simply not possible. Why do people here insist on debasing Luke’s reputation? It should be obvious to all who see the photos that he’s a good kid in the wrong place at the wrong time being falsely accused of complicity in this whole crazy mess. I just won’t mention his girlfriend at all. It’s a lighting trick in the photo that makes it appear that he seems to be undisturbed by what he sees happening.
Anyone who says anything bad about Luke will be hearing from my lawyers. You’d be surprised how expensive it is to defend yourself in a libel suit, even if you win in the end.
Mr. Basso,
Please read the post above (about half way up). My response to his father’s post. Watching a crime take place is not acceptable. He watched his girlfriend commit a crime. Stealing is a crime. Looting is theft. It is against the law. And he watched it happen. He didn’t walk away. Or try and convince her not to do it. If any of my friends are about to commit a crime I sure as hell am not going to just stand around and watch.
I find it quite sad that you are teaching Luke that this is OK. If my friends were about to rob your house and I just stood outside, did I do anything wrong? Absolutely. And I’m not talking about the law. I’m talking about commen decency, human kindness and respect for someone else’s property. I respect your property, your car, etc. that I would not stand around as my friends destroyed your house.
Please teach Luke that girlfriends that steal are not the type of people you want around him. If he really is disturbed by what she did he’ll cut ties with her. But he really has to think about why he stayed there in the first place.
Some language in this forum may be harsh and horrible for an adult to hear about their own child but the anger you hear from people is our response to the denial of parents to admit that their child did something wrong. Standing around while crimes are committed is wrong. Morally it’s wrong. All we want are parents to look with eyes wide open and truly see how their children have behaved. And to fix it.
We all make mistakes. Luke staying there was a mistake. Instead of threatening to sue u,s talk to your kid. Use the money you would use on lawyers to pay for a weekend away from the city to talk to your kid. Help him so that the next time he feels peer pressure he walks away or tries to change it. Teach him not to be a follower, but a leader. thank you
@John
The previous post was satire, portraying a parody of the views of J. Basso. It was not actually posted by anyone from the Basso Family.
So.. you’re going to sue me for doing the right thing?
Mr. Basso, Luke was a participant in a robbery just like a look out or a getaway driver. Luke Basso is not a good kid, he may have been one but now he is a criminal. You can’t bring on a libel suit if it’s true
What was he supposed to do, hit a lady?
No, he should have walked away. When your friends are doing stupid things you either try to convince them not to do it or you leave the scene.
So, he should have left a young woman all alone in a riot zone?
Sorry, kiddo, can’t agree.
It seems that most of the people on this site are saying that Luke is guilty by simply being there. What were you doing there Van-kid? Why didn’t you try to stop her from taking the items. Why didn’t you leave the downtown area when the police wanted everyone to? So he is quilty but you’re not? What these pictures fail to show is the dialogue that was going on between the two of them. The pictures don’t show Luke telling his girlfriend not to go into the store and to leave the items behind. Which btw she did! WHere is that picture Van-kid? These pictures also don’t show that they were trying to leave the area, they were walking towards the ski train, since there was no other mode of transportation.
I love the way everyone including Captain Vancouver are being the judge and jury. Everyone sitting on their high horse convicting these two young adults. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Have any of you arm chair judge and jury heard this? There aren’t too many adults out there that haven’t done something stupid at some time in their lives. Also for you young people trying to tell Mr. Basso how to raise he’s son, until you have children of your own; you don’t get to have that privilege. At least Mr. Basso has the courage to put his full name on his post. For all you parents out there that seem to think, “Oh my God, my kids would never be involved in anything like this!” think again!
Enough already! They have been identified, due to the great pictures INNOCENT Van-Kid took. Their lives have been turned upside down. They are receiving death threats on an hourly basis, due to awesome sites like this one. How will you all feel if someone hurt these two kids or worse kills them? Will that finally be enought for all of you?
Your a Terrorist Supporter.
lol and you’re a bad speller.
we all know that no one in vancouver is balls enough to actually follow through and MURDER one of these shit heads – if that was the case, we’d have never even have had the first riot.
this is all just so much posturing and venting – can you people stop wringing your hands and just enjoy watching their parents write the checks? we promise we haven’t overthrown the rule of law.. yeesh.
“we promise we haven’t overthrown the rule of law.. yeesh.”
But you clearly don’t know what the rule of law is, so how do you know that it isn’t already overthrown by, for example, the use of CS Gas Warfare?
GREAT IDEA!
If it is true that Luke did not loot, I don’t look down on him for not walking away. He likely was saddened by his girlfriend’s action. So very sad. If he restrained himself from joining the pack – then, that takes some reflection, an assessment of values. Good for him. He may, however, want to reasses his relationship with someone with such little character. It’s these sorts of situations when you see a person’s true colour.
I hope Sarah feels asahmed of herself.
Luke, you can do much better.
what kind of a shit head can’t figure out that no amount of art-history student xxxxx is worth going to jail and having your reputation sullied over?
To Lori P and Enough:
I do look down on him for not walking away. There are going to be many times in his life when he will be faced with the decision of whether to walk away or stay. The picture was taken after dark so that means he was there for a couple of hours at least, after cars had already been set on fire. Restraining himself from not joining the pack should not be applauded. Not being in the pack the moment they knew it turned ugly, would be applauded.
I find it interesting that you two would take so lightly an atmosphere of looting, vandalism and burining of cars. You two sound intelligent and it sounds like you both have a good head on your shoulders. It doesn’t sound like either of you were there or even would be there. I happen to like this forum because it opens a discussion. It’s a great chance for both young and older to interact and maybe learn from each other.
When I was younger, yes I did immature things. And I had to make decisions about whether to follow the pack or not. Sometimes i did, and sometimes I didn’t. But those were mostly decisions about damage to myself (like drinking too much,etc.), never damage to someone else’s property or theft.
I guess I’m just wondering when people starting to dis-associate with caring about other people’s property. And I’m not asking this in a judgement way, I’m just really curious.
Enough, you say that they returned the shirts. It’s unfortunate that they put themselves in that position in the first place. But i tell you this, there are going to be many, many times in life that they are going to need to be quicker with their assessment of a situation. If one of the burning cars had blown up, they could have been injured or killed. Maybe the feedback on this site will teach them a few things and help their decision making in the future.
Here is some good reading for everyone.
http://www.theprovince.com/mobile/iphone/news/top-stories/Outing+rioters+online+risks+labelling+bystanders+criminals/4970523/story.html
Just a thought…if some crazy people hurt anyone that has been identified on these blogs/websites can there be charges laid against the people running these sites??? Would they be considered accomplices?
If some crazy person does something crazy? It’s because the crazy in them told them to well,be crazy. Much like the stupid in these stupid people made them be stupid.
The person who took these pics is not seen looting or seen smirking after watching someone else loot. If you are trying to illustrate an example of a double standard being displayed on these pages you are lacking in logic and comes across more like deflecting.
Stop making excuses for these people.
Please stop, your embarrassing yourself.
don’t worry, enough – we don’t want to hurt anyone innocent, so we won’t. this mob clearly wanted to hurt all kinds of innocent people, though.
This civil rights toolbag defends others like the mass murdering Piggy Pickton!
If you noticed on the news the first thing the police did was try to disperse everyone and get them out of their. Clearly they didnt and stayed around, she should be doing community service for encouraging and participating in the act of looting as well as put on her record that she “stole” and took part in this event. He should be disciplined as well for being their into the late hours clearly during the riot when he should have gone home. But if he had any kind of descent parents he will get disciplined..let’s hope. How is it these kids are in a university and are dumb ass fuck to participate? There’s no excuse! I guess they are smart when it comes to schooling. But lack any kind of common sense!!!
“But lack any kind of common sense!!!”
Common sense says you never abandon your friends.
You want a young man to abandon a young woman in a riot zone? For shame.
Hell yeah, if she was looting, I’d want to be far away from her and the cameras fool!!!
“If you noticed on the news the first thing the police did was try to disperse everyone and get them out of their. Clearly they didnt and stayed around, she should be doing community service for encouraging and participating in the act of looting as well as put on her record that she “stole” and took part in this event. He should be disciplined as well for being their into the late hours clearly during the riot when he should have gone home.”
Uhh… doesn’t this apply to the person who took the picture as well?
[…] Sarah McCusker & Luke Basso UBC Students […]
Sarah Mccusker and Luke Basso | The Vancouver Riots said this on June 19, 2011 at 11:30 pm |
Where will these rioters be on Canada Day coming up. I hope I don’t hear that any of them are singing the Canadian anthem, especially the part that says “We stand on guard for thee”. Too bad they cannot be banned from being involved in any celebrations involving our home and native land. I wonder where they will be on July 1st?
hear hear! better keep the ears open around the local douchebag franchises.
Lol never said he should abandon her.. If was any kind of man he would have said not a good idea, this isn’t safe let’s go. Instead they all clearly stayed around laughing and taking clothes.
Both of these clowns were participating in a riot just by being there.
Once again, doesn’t this also apply to the person who took their picture?
I’m no attorney, but if he walked away together with her and the items, knowing very well that they were stolen, isn’t he an accomplice or an accessory in the crime?
of course not, ‘they made a mistake’ can’t you see??? +9000 purses like a boss
While Sarah McCusker may have handled something, don’t the photos also show that in the end she didn’t take anything? Recognizing that she was doing wrong and then not taking anything and then leaving the area is pretty good in my book. Why don’t you concentrate on those that actually did take something; caused damage and physically assaulted others?
What are you seeing in the upper right photo? Do you think those items somehow made it back to the store?
Why don’t you concentrate on those that actually did take something
that’s what we’re doing hurrrr
There seems to be good evidence of three crimes for both in these photos: criminal trespass and theft (B & E) and violating the riot act. I have no idea how people can post essentially that “Luke didn’t do anything”.
There also seems to be plenty here for the police. I hope these kids pay an appropriate price and can still finish their education. They’re likely stupid, not hopeless.
Shaming, not shunning.
But, just for the sake of argument, isn’t the photo taker also violating the riot act?
Seems so.
Perhaps a mini-shaming is in order if the photographer is not a journalist 🙂
Everyone who stayed degraded the ability of the police to respond to the riot. But I admit at age twenty I would have had a hard time leaving.
The girl baring her teeth is a great example of a primitive response. She’s literally snarling at the photographer as she was “caught”.
It seems they may not even get prosecuted without the garmets. But I expect that there are some very unhappy parental units. “Hey kids, how was the riot ?!?!”
now your just getting wierd
i didn’t know he spoke three languages! douche, english and spanish – impressive.
also weird
Don, as per your question, I believe it probably is illegal to handle the stolen merchandise if only for a second but she’s being vilified for a second of extremely poor judgment and did not go through with a bad action.
Let’s say Nathan Kotylak had recognized the follow of his ways and had taken the burning paper from the car immediately after he put it in and grabbed the burning firebrand and stomped it out and closed the gas tank, would people view it in the same way? Of course not. Unfortunately for him, he didn’t do this.
If a person intends to rob a bank and enters with a knife and brandishes it for a second and then recognizes the severity of what they’re doing and leaves instead, they will still be charged but won’t be charged in the same way as if they went through with the robbery. If I hold everyone to the same standard then even the good samaritans that helped were in violation because they impeded the police simply for the fact that they were in the evacuation area.
Would I be disappointed had my own kids remained in the area once the riots had broken out? Of course but do I think that someone should be charged for recognizing her actions were wrong at that moment in time, no I don’t.
At the same time, I do want those who broke windows, actually stole merchandise, damaged property and cars and assaulted people to be held accountable.
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Does anyone monitoring this blog actually know and recognize the female in the photo? I need to speak to those who do. I am not looking for those who “heard” she was ……… I am looking for those who can look at the photo and say “the female in the photo is…..”
Constable Andrew ROY
RCMP – Integrated Riot Investigation Team (IRIT)
604-717-8779
andrew.roy@vpd.ca
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